Movie Warning for All You Christians Out There!!!

[Admin Greg]

I'm watching thread carefully. As long as it keeps being civil and everyone respects each other it will continue, if not, I will lock it.

 

[pckelly]

By you saying that Danielle, assures me you came into this thread looking for a debate. It also saddens my heart that you would say that, there is nothing in this world like the love of Jesus Christ. I am not saying christian people, I am saying the love of Jesus Christ himself. You will never experience anything greater and more beautiful than him.

 

[pckelly]

Greg, I apologize. If you look at my posts I don't think I have been uncivil at all. When I used bold captions up above, it's because I get excited when I talk about what Christ has done, so it is out of excitement, not screaming at anyone. I think it's time I stop posting anyway, be blessed and thanks for keeping an eye on this whole thread.

 

[caynreth]

I'm so glad I'm not a christian. That's all I have to say

I'm just glad my religion doesn't have complicated rules and restrictions. I still don't understand the concept of sin. My religion has one rule: DO NO HARM. In any way, to anyone. I'm sure I don't always live up to that, but I sure do try. Which is why I've spent most of today sorting out all the recyclable material from the non-recyclable in this ROOM FULL of stuff my husband was trying to toss in the dumpster. oy!

 

[jasonmva]

First of all Danielle, we are ALL sinners. We were born sinners. No one was telling Jason he was a sinner and we all weren't. I can say that for everyone that posted on this thread. We are all sinners, we all sin. We were pointing out that homosexuality is a sin, just like any other sin God talks about in the Bible. Sin is Sin in God's eyes, not one worse than the other. Period. I sin! We all sin. But, as a christian, I have the wonderful opportunity to go to Jesus Christ and ask Him to forgive me of my sin. All of my sins, and get them covered by the His redeeming blood. And two, what everyone is doing is not "Preaching", it is the spoken word of God. Preachers..preach. I am not a preacher, don't claim to be one. I speak the Word of God. The words I have read and have hidden in my heart, and have tried to align my life with are getting spoken, not preached. You only think it is preaching because that is how us christians always get tagged as doing...is preaching. We are SPEAKING the awesome power of the written Word of God, that's it.

And Jason, I didn't say anything about public viewing, I said "if they wanted to know why us christians didn't accept these movies or books". In order to do that, they posted. So when they posted that there is nothing wrong with this material, then yes, they were looking for a debate. Discriminatory? There's a thread going on right now about reading those books. I don't think that is being discriminated against because I don't read that or see that material. I certainly won't be in that thread asking them why they like them so much.

And I didn't say a different Bible. I'm sure you use the same Bible, but yes, obviously what comes out of it is a watered down concept. Because God's Word NEVER changes. God does love you and accept you!! BUT HE DOES NOT TOLERATE THE SIN!! That is what I have been trying to say!! Understand the difference!!! Quit assuming what I am trying to say and read it. HE LOVES EVERYONE. EVERYONE ON THIS WHOLE BOARD, LISTEN! JESUS CHRIST, GOD, HOLY SPIRIT, LOVES YOU WITH ALL HIS HEART AND SOUL. HE LONGS FOR A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU, LONGS FOR YOU TO SPEND TIME WITH HIM AND LOVE HIM. HE WANTS US TO COME TO HIM IN EACH AND EVERY SITUATION. BUT GOD IS A HOLY GOD. IN HIM THERE IS NO SIN. HE CANNOT LIE. SO WHEN HE SAYS SOMETHING IN HIS WORD, IT IS TRUTH. HE CANNOT LIE. HE WILL NOT TOLERATE SIN. NOT FROM ME, YOU, ANYONE. HE ACCEPTS US, LOVES US, BUT WILL NOT ACCEPT OUR SIN. THAT IS WHY JESUS CHRIST CAME TO THIS EARTH. TO DIE FOR OUR SINS, SO WE CAN COME TO THE FATHER, AFTER OUR SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED BY THE BLOOD. THANKYOU JESUS, FOR ALLOWING ME TO SAVED! THANKYOU FOR FORGIVING MY SINS EACH AND EVERY DAY. I NEED YOUR GRACE AND MERCY.

What you still have me baffled with is you say that it is the same book but yet my version is watered down. If it is the same book, how can what comes out of mine be watered down, but what comes out of yours is the Word of god? Are you sure your church isn't using the watered own version?

Oh and by the way, I confess my sins before receiving the body and blood of Christ every week. But again, since we have different definitions of what is a sin, you probably think I don't repent.

And I will quit trying to assume what you say when you extend the same courtesy to me without bashing me with bible verses.

 

[daniellemorgan]

I'm just glad my religion doesn't have complicated rules and restrictions. I still don't understand the concept of sin. My religion has one rule: DO NO HARM. In any way, to anyone. I'm sure I don't always live up to that, but I sure do try. Which is why I've spent most of today sorting out all the recyclable material from the non-recyclable in this ROOM FULL of stuff my husband was trying to toss in the dumpster. oy!

you sound like my kind of girl!!! thanks for caring about the important stuff

 

[cmdtrgd]

Kelly - not looking for a debate, but just offering a few nice (hopefully!) suggestions.When you say that someone will never experience anything greater and more beautiful than him, you are seeming to be one-sided, pushy, agressive, I can't really find the right word. I know you mean well and you are passionate which is great. However, it comes across as judgmental because you don't know what that person is going through or believes in.Also, for everyone (not just Kelly) I count you all as my friends and love this board and the friendships I have made. However, some of the views on this thread are amazingly narrow. Because you (generally) have become christian does not mean it is the only way. One of the great things about being human is the ability to CHOOSE. I understand that you believe that christianity is they only way to go - more power to you (again, general). However, christianity is not the only religion that feels that way. If a Buddhist were to come up to you and tell you that you were a sinner and will not go to heaven because you didn't choose Buddhism as your religion, would you be offended? Most likely you would. Does that make it right to tell other people that because you believe it? IMHO, no.Completely other note, some christian beliefs agree that if you do not know Jesus and accept him and are saved, you do not get into heaven (or go to hell...depending on belief). What about those people who lived before? What about those people who still haven't been touched by "modern" man (ie. tribes in the jungle)? Would a just and loving god deem them to be sinners because they never had the chance? If you say no, then you are interpreting the bible.

 

[cmdtrgd]

I find it ironic that there are so many different christian religions (not to mention, non christian religions) that people don't see that the bible is interpreted!!! If it weren't, then there would be one christian religion!

 

[pckelly]

Bashing you with Bible verses? I have only referenced 2 actual verses? How is that bashing? And what I mean by watered down, is to read the Bible and see that homosexuality is a sin, and say,..MMMMmmmmm, that's not what that really meands and I don't think that pertains to us now. That is what I mean by watered down.

 

[jasonmva]

I find it ironic that there are so many different christian religions (not to mention, non christian religions) that people don't see that the bible is interpreted!!! If it weren't, then there would be one christian religion!

Amen sister!!! I think the most important thing that we (as people) need to remember is that each different religion originally came from one but there were some who did not agree entirely with what they were taught so they took some of the good things they found with that religion and created something new and wonderful. Let us remember, Jesus was Jewish, nor Christian. So if we are to follow the true word of God, shouldn't we all be Jewish?

 

[cmdtrgd]

Kelly - you were not the only one putting up verses, so I assume that Jason was also frustrated with those people as well.

 

[pckelly]

Before Jesus returns, everyone on this earth will have had the chance to know Him, will have been given the choice to follow Him or not. Even the tribes that still exist in the far corners of the earth.

"When you say that someone will never experience anything greater and more beautiful than him,"

I say that because there is no one greater and more magnificant than God Almighty! And for Him, a big, huge, wonderful God, to want to live inside us, is AMAZING>that's why I say that.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Amen sister!!! I think the most important thing that we (as people) need to remember is that each different religion originally came from one but there were some who did not agree entirely with what they were taught so they took some of the good things they found with that religion and created something new and wonderful. Let us remember, Jesus was Jewish, nor Christian. So if we are to follow the true word of God, shouldn't we all be Jewish?

Heh....did you see my Jews for Jesus comment earlier? These people have a beautiful alcove in their home. Half is filled with a yammaca (sp? The skull cap thing...yes, I am ignorant sometimes), prayer shawl, menorah, etc. The other half is the crucifix, bible, etc. It was so weird!! I mean, one of the main parts of the Jewish faith is that Jesus was not the savior, but just a great man, and that the savior is still to come.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Before Jesus returns, everyone on this earth will have had the chance to know Him, will have been given the choice to follow Him or not. Even the tribes that still exist in the far corners of the earth.

"When you say that someone will never experience anything greater and more beautiful than him,"
I say that because there is no one great and more magnificant than God Almighty! And for Him, a big, huge, wonderful God, to want to live inside us, is AMAZING>that's why I say that.

Kelly, again I am so glad you have your faith and are happy with it. I just would ask you to think about what you are laying on others from your point of view. It can be difficult to do (I know from personal experience), but your words can be hurtful even when you don't mean them to be. Who knows if someone had the most amazing experience with a terminally ill child, an animal, a lover, etc. That may not compare to what you are feeling, but to them it IS the most amazing feeling. When you say that to them, it can demean their experience.

 

[jasonmva]

Bashing you with Bible verses? I have only referenced 2 actual verses? How is that bashing? And what I mean by watered down, is to read the Bible and see that homosexuality is a sin, and say,..MMMMmmmmm, that's not what that really meands and I don't think that pertains to us now. That is what I mean by watered down.

But what you may not realize is those are 2 of the many verses that are ALWAYS used against gay people. Re-read the story of Ruth and Naomi and you tell me they were not life partners after their husbands died? You will more than likely see it as to women who were friends and wanted to be with each other for the rest of their lives. Sounds like homosexuality to me.

And again, the bible has been translated and retranslated and made into multiple version. Are you 100% positive that the version you are reading is what was actually written at the time of Chirst? Somehow I don't think so because the orginial version would not have been written in English. Hence, since man translated the bible inot English, some words that were originally written may not have had a perfect translation so the closest word was used. So everyone who reads what they call the bible now, has a watered down version. How many books were left out and some not even found that make up the complete bible?

I would love to discuss more about it, but I have to get ready to go to my Christian church and hear readings from the watered down version. (Hopefully this version will be in stores soon next to the King James version)

 

[cmdtrgd]

Okay, another thoughtful question...Would you rather let your kids play at a christian house where one of the christian members of the household was a rapist (actually went to jail for it and all) or an agnostic house where people are kind to others?

 

[pckelly]

WHAT??????????
I am not demeaning anyones experiences, at all. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but you ask anyone that has TRULY experienced Christ and find out from them if they have ever experienced anything like it. I am not laying anything on anyone. I am speaking from my heart.

 

[cmdtrgd]

WHAT??????????
I am not demeaning anyones experiences, at all. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but you ask anyone that has TRULY experienced Christ and find out from them if they have ever experienced anything like it. I am not laying anything on anyone. I am speaking from my heart.

Kelly - please calm down. I know you don't mean it. Please realize I am not trying to attack you, but to show you that what you say can be felt that way.

 

[pckelly]

O my, for you to say that Ruth and Naomi were life partners?? Homosexual life partners? O' my. I think it is time for me to go. Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

 

[cmdtrgd]

How do you know that I haven't experienced him? By the way you worded your post, I felt like you were possibly thinking that. Am I wrong?

 

[cmdtrgd]

We know not what we do? THAT is judgmental.

 

[daniellemorgan]

Kelly I think you should pray to "your father" to open up your mind a little bit and not be so judgemental. Shame on you...

 

[smarteez2]

While I Am Gladthat we are free to give our opinions on anything on this board, this whole debate does make me wish we could stick to strickly PC related materials KWIM? There are plenty other websites that these discussions can go onto, or perhaps Greg could make a seperate room for this discussion as well as all the prayer request discussions, just a thought.

 

[etteluap70PC]

That is why we have the lounge and there is a seperate Prayer request section...

Please Greg do not (as long as it does not get nasty) start shutting down more threads!

I have reframed from commenting in this thread because well... others have said things far better than I ever could. Lets say I have added a few books to my list I would like to read and form my own opininions about.

Oh and I have allready been informed by a southern Baptist former co worker that I will Not be getting into heaven because I have not been "saved". All I can say is at least wherever I end up I will be with my husband and others that I love and care about. And I am sure I will run into some dear friends whom I have lost touch with over the years.

 

[Admin Greg]

There will be no reason to close this thread as long as people are peaceful.

 

[Shawnna]

Ruth and Naomi were not partners. someone didn't understand the beautiful and tragic love story in that book.

People who came before Jesus were covered by the law of Moses...and by the blood of sacrifices. When Jesus came he became the blood sacrifice so that we don't have to sacrifice animals anymore. He also came so that we can have a close/personal relationship with God and not have to go before the priest for him to ask forgiveness for us.

Someone posted about Christians who molest children and other horrible things. Guess what, if they are doing those things, they are not living a Christ like life. Don't judge all Christians on the wrongs that some do and don't lump us all together. I do not judge people by their race, religion, etc. but, I firmly believe in God's word as written in the Bible. The Bible says that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. So, I believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Other "religions" believe differently. Some believe that they should strap a bomb on their children and send them into a crowded building and blow them to bits. Jesus speaks of love for everyone...love your neighbor as yourself. He doesn't say if your neighbor is a drug dealer you should go to his parties and participate in his sin. He says to love him and pray for him. Jesus does not condone violence. All of us will answer to God when Jesus returns. It says that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Satan believes in God and Jesus...he trembles at the mention of their names and he will flee from you when you speak their words. Just because someone says they believe in God or Jesus does not mean they are a Christian.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Shawnna - my comment about christians that molest children, beat their kids, etc. was meant to show that just because someone says they are a christian does not mean they are 1. a good person, 2. have the same beliefs and 3. should be believed. It goes back to my initial post about making an informed decision based on your own experiences. I was in no way trying to lump all christians together. Does that make more sense?

 

[DebbieSAChef]

WowThis has certainly gotten really long since I was last here. I did want to add a couple of things.

It seems Christians are always thought of as close minded, intolerant, hell fire preaching, judgmental, and hateful! And that is a lie straight from satan himself. Boy does he love for God's people to be called those things.

Jesus preached about hell. Jesus preached against sin. Jesus spoke truth in love. Does that make Jesus close minded, intolerant, judgmental and hateful? No it does not. It makes him God and the lover of sinners.

Matthew 19:4-5 “Haven’t you read,” [Jesus] replied, “that at the beginning the CREATOR ‘made them MALE AND FEMALE,’ [5] and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

About the comment on Ruth and Naomi. They were mother in law and daughter in law. I have a wonderful, loving relationship with my mother in law. And if we ever lost our husbands, God forbid, we would have that same relationship as in the bible. That is not a homosexual relationship. It was a mother - daughter relationship where they decided to stick together and Ruth said "Your people will be my people and your God will be my God!" What a beautiful picture of loyalty and God rewards her with a husband.

I am sorry if you feel that our beliefs or views of the bible are hateful and judgemental but we don't hate anyone. We don't judge anyone, God does. But we see a man drinking himself to death, beating his wife, beating his kids, and shooting up heroin. Should we step in and help? Should we tell this man about his sin and tell him that he needs repentance and forgiveness so that he can be reconciled with God? Of course we do. I have stepped in on many occasions for the helpless. I was once a sexually abused child who no one stepped in to help. I believe God's plan was for me to help those who are abused now as an adult, and I have stepped in to help those babies who are aborted daily. If we love him, we do. If we hate him, we turn the other way and ignore what is going on.
Now is doing drugs, beating kids, or being a drunk and spending all the families money on beer the worst sin ever? No
What about lying? Is that the worst sin? No
ALL SIN is disgusting and vile in the eyes of God. My sin, your sin, everyone's sin. We must see just how vile and horrible sin is. We must hate sin and cry out for God to save us from it. Sinning against a holy God is the worst thing in the world we could do. And to tell someone that they are in sin and need God's forgiveness and that they need to repent is not wrong. It is not hateful or judgmental. It is the only thing we can do as God's servants. We must proclaim the gospel. We must speak truth in love.

There are many churches that speak that God is love, God is your buddy, he doesn't care about your sin, he wants to make you rich and never sick or hurting. Those churches grow into mega churches and are very popular. They don't make you uncomfortable, they don't talk about sin, they leave you just as you are. And then those people end up in hell. There are many interpretations because men are sinful and don't want to accept what God says straight out and changes it to suit his sinful desires. I did when I was lost. "Well did God really say that I shouldn't be having fun on the weekends, I am not hurting anyone?" But my idea of fun broke several commandments.

I agree if a "christian" is molesting kids, or doing other sinful things they aren't christians. Does that mean christians are perfect? No, it means we hate sin and the things we once loved we now hate and turn all our love towards the God who made us. Sin will have no dominion over you, we fight it tooth and nail and with the Holy spirit we can have victory.

This is a great website to visit. Exodus International - Home

Debbie

 

[sailortena]

I read this article recently online and thought it very interesting about different Christian groups and their beliefs. It breaks it down into Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox.I suggest reading it in its entirety.http://geneva.rutgers.edu/src/christianity/why.html

 

[jrstephens]

I just have a few things to say at this point. I wish I could learn how to quote more than one post in a reply, but I can't so I will just respond.

1. Some of you say that Jason is getting bullied and bashed on this thread for his beliefs, what do some of you think you have started doing to Kelly for her beliefs? Which by the way I totally agree with all Kelly has said so far. So, why condemn Christians for standing firm in their beliefs when others disagree with what our beliefs should be when you are doing the same thing (condemning us)?

2. If a person is a murder, child molester, beater or things of that nature claims to be a Christian that is what they are doing CLAIMING b/c a true believer in Christ would not do those things b/c they would be striving to live like Christ.

3. As far as Christians believing Jesus in the only way to Heaven...yes that is how a Bible believing Christian lives b/c that is what the Bible says. "Jesus told Him, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6"

4. As for as "watered down versions of the Bible." There are plenty of them out there. When the Bible is interpreted wrong then you can call it watered down or wrong, whichever you prefer. But people that do that will suffer in the end too. "I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them. God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. Revelation 22:18." I don't mess with that by adding or taking ways from God's word.

I find it so interesting that people are questioning on here whether the Bible is God's actual word. This shows how God works and uses us. A few weeks ago we went over this in Sunday School and discussed each of the arguments the people here are giving and how to testify against them. That was God equipping me to defend His written infallible word. Praise the Lord! Before then I had never thought how to defend against knowing that the Bible is God's word that he gave men to write down, I had always accepted it with blind-child like Faith b/c that is what I have always believed.

4. Did I choose to be heterosexual? No, God created me that way.

5. Do I believe marriage is defined as one man, one woman? You bet!

6. Do I believe that people who abandoned their children are sinners? Yes, but that can be forgiven just like we all can be forgiven our sins if we repent.
"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 2:23" "For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23."

I think I have said all that I can think of to say right now.

 

[jrstephens]

I also felt God telling me this weekend that with all of the "views" of this thread to post the Gospel Wheel that we use in our children's ministry to witness for Jesus for anyone that is interested. I am copying the verses into this post as well as attaching them as a document for anyone that wants that.

Gospel Wheel
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
I Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[jasonmva]

Debbie - I find it interesting that you linked the Exodus website in your post. For those that may not be aware, that is an organization that trys to convert gay people to straight people. I, in turn, would like to link one for everyone to view with an open mind

Metropolitan Community Churches | HomePage

Jennifer - I wasn't the one that made the initial comment about a watered down version of the bible, that was Kelly, but I need to again ask if I am interpreting something differently than you are, how can either of us be wrong? We were taught different ways to interpret the stories of the bible. How can you say yours is right and mine is wrong? That is a judgment.

Also, if you can say that you did not choose to be hetero, God made you like that, how is it that I am wrong for saying I did not choose to be gay, God made me like that. Again, God made me in his own image. If, like someone stated earlier, that means by giving me a soul, then why is it not written that God gave me a soul in his own image?

And Kelly - Thanks for the judgement again. We all know not what we do, not just those of us that don't agree with you 100%. I will pray for you that you may be able to see someone else's point of view and not be so quick to judge.

 

[pamperedpsalmstress]

WOW, this is first I've heard of this. will be forwarding on to church email as well.

 

[jrstephens]

Jennifer - I wasn't the one that made the initial comment about a watered down version of the bible, that was Kelly, but I need to again ask if I am interpreting something differently than you are, how can either of us be wrong? We were taught different ways to interpret the stories of the bible. How can you say yours is right and mine is wrong? That is a judgment.

Also, if you can say that you did not choose to be hetero, God made you like that, how is it that I am wrong for saying I did not choose to be gay, God made me like that. Again, God made me in his own image. If, like someone stated earlier, that means by giving me a soul, then why is it not written that God gave me a soul in his own image?

I live on this verse that I was created hetero in Romans 19:5-6 "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." I do not see how that can be interpreted any other way.

And yes God did create you in His own image but He also gave you Free Will to make life choices which I believe you made in being homosexual.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Freedom

Debbie - I find it interesting that you linked the Exodus website in your post. For those that may not be aware, that is an organization that trys to convert gay people to straight people.

I am sorry but that is not correct. They help gay people who wish to come out of that lifestyle and be free with the help of Jesus. It's a choice, that is why you can change your mind. Not like a person's race.

What is Exodus?
Exodus is a nonprofit, interdenominational Christian organization promoting the message of Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ. Since 1976, Exodus has grown to include over 120 local ministries in the USA and Canada. We are also linked with other Exodus world regions outside of North America, totaling over 150 ministries in 17 countries.
Within both the Christian and secular communities, Exodus has challenged those who respond to homosexuals with ignorance and fear, and those who uphold homosexuality as a valid orientation. These extremes fail to convey the fullness of redemption found in Jesus Christ, a gift which is available to all who commit their life and their sexuality to Him.

And I can't remember who posted this earlier but I wanted to comment that people get into heaven because they have been born again, forgiven and justified by Jesus Christ. People who never acknowledge God, except in times of trouble, cannot expect to get to heaven. I mean why would they want to go to heaven, so they don't go to hell? That's not a good enough reason to get into heaven right?
To be in heaven is to be in the presence of the Holy, Righteous Savior of the world for eternity. To worship, adore and be in awe of such an awesome merciful God. I can't wait to sit at His feet and look upon my Savior! There will not be clouds and harps and halos for everyone! LOL

When we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, we are made righteous in the eyes of God. When we have our sins nailed to the cross, we are justified and the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. WE must get into heaven by what Christ did, not what we have done or will do. And those who reject the gospel of Christ will not enter heaven.

Debbie

 

[jasonmva]

I like how Exodus thinks I am ignorant and fearful just because I was born gay. Yup, sounds like a Christian cult to me. They rank right up there with Jerry Falwell, who thinks Tinky-Winky is gay because he has a purple triangle on his head? Um note to the now deceased Mr. Fallwell...the triangle is facing the wrong dirwection and ours is pink, not purple.

And how is it that I am incorrect by saying that they try to convert gay to staright but you word it that they help those who are gay become straight? Isn't that the same thing?

And I want to ask this to you as the true Christians you claim to be. I am not trying to be sarastic by any means but this is something I have been doing a lot of thinking about since we began these discussions. You know that PC is owned by Warren Buffet (I am sure you do) and that Warren Buffet believes in supporting abortion. Now, and correct me if I am wrong, as a true Chrisitan you are told not to believe in abortion, so why are you working for a company which essentially the money you earn for them supports abortion? Is it because it is a job? Then aren't you committing the sin of greed? Which is more important..the money or your beliefs?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I like how Exodus thinks I am ignorant and fearful just because I was born gay. Yup, sounds like a Christian cult to me. They rank right up there with Jerry Falwell, who thinks Tinky-Winky is gay because he has a purple triangle on his head? Um note to the now deceased Mr. Fallwell...the triangle is facing the wrong dirwection and ours is pink, not purple.And how is it that I am incorrect by saying that they try to convert gay to staright but you word it that they help those who are gay become straight? Isn't that the same thing?And I want to ask this to you as the true Christians you claim to be. I am not trying to be sarastic by any means but this is something I have been doing a lot of thinking about since we began these discussions. You know that PC is owned by Warren Buffet (I am sure you do) and that Warren Buffet believes in supporting abortion. Now, and correct me if I am wrong, as a true Chrisitan you are told not to believe in abortion, so why are you working for a company which essentially the money you earn for them supports abortion? Is it because it is a job? Then aren't you committing the sin of greed? Which is more important..the money or your beliefs?

This is a mute point, as it has already been hashed and rehashed, and the point you are trying to make is false. Money earned from PC does not go to support abortion.....and I have the letter sent from Doris to prove it!PLEASE - that was a painful time for the whole company, lets not go there again just to win a point in an argument.ETA - and I would ask others to not respond to the question asked.......it just doesn't serve any purpose when it is something from the past and has already been resolved.

 

[sailortena]

And I can't remember who posted this earlier but I wanted to comment that people get into heaven because they have been born again, forgiven and justified by Jesus Christ. People who never acknowledge God, except in times of trouble, cannot expect to get to heaven.

I'm sorry, but to me that is a very limited viewpoint on how one can aspire to get into heaven. By saying that, you've just sent about 80% of the population of this planet to hell.

There are many, many different religions and life philosophies on this planet. Every single one has its positives and negatives, but NOT ONE is the Alpha and Omega in spirituality. If there was one true religion, then why wouldn't we all follow it?

Every faith on the planet, however, does have its own version of spiritual enlightenment. You will reach yours by being "born again, forgiven and justified by Jesus Christ."

Others who are Jewish, Hindu, follow Islam, Native American, Buddhists, Athiests, Wiccans and other "pagans" have their own form of Heaven they will strive for.

We are all born, and we die. How you choose to live your life in between that point is up to you, and how you feel about yourself and your life before your life extinguishes is what matters.

 

[caynreth]

Well said, Sailortena. A wise man once told me "if it works for you, it's true. It's a big universe out there with infinite possibilities and infinite truths."

 

[janetupnorth]

I'm sorry, but to me that is a very limited viewpoint on how one can aspire to get into heaven. By saying that, you've just sent about 80% of the population of this planet to hell.There are many, many different religions and life philosophies on this planet. Every single one has its positives and negatives, but NOT ONE is the Alpha and Omega in spirituality. If there was one true religion, then why wouldn't we all follow it?

I've been sitting back but this got me...Sorry, limited but true and it breaks my heart to know how many around me will be in hell while Satan is down there rejoicing that he won them. Christ died for all, but not all choose to accept that...Matthew 7:13-14 - Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it....and Debbie did not send 80% of the planet to hell, each person did when they sinned....and if there was one truth, why wouldn't we all follow it???? We are sinful...and Satan is the master of deception. He uses what he can to get us...pride, any topic we feel strongly about, the list goes on and on. Plus, salvation is hard for many people because many don't want to be humble enough to be accountable to a higher being!

 

[jasonmva]

This is a mute point, as it has already been hashed and rehashed, and the point you are trying to make is false. Money earned from PC does not go to support abortion.....and I have the letter sent from Doris to prove it!

PLEASE - that was a painful time for the whole company, lets not go there again just to win a point in an argument.


ETA - and I would ask others to not respond to the question asked.......it just doesn't serve any purpose when it is something from the past and has already been resolved.

I wasn't going there just to try and win an argument. I've done research and read articles where some consultants quit PC because of this and how it did not fall in their belief system. I respect that you have a letter from Doris but do you have a letter from Warren? While money may not directly be going to support that, Mr. Buffet does and in a sense, the money he earns from his share of PC stock goes to the same cause.

I don't see how my question was also a moot point because we have continuously discussing what every believes and this was something that made me think. After all, isn't that what we are all trying to do?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I wasn't going there just to try and win an argument. I've done research and read articles where some consultants quit PC because of this and how it did not fall in their belief system. I respect that you have a letter from Doris but do you have a letter from Warren? While money may not directly be going to support that, Mr. Buffet does and in a sense, the money he earns from his share of PC stock goes to the same cause.

I don't see how my question was also a moot point because we have continuously discussing what every believes and this was something that made me think. After all, isn't that what we are all trying to do?

The letter from Doris is regarding the meeting she had with WB, and the decision that they made together that $ from PC would not be used to support abortion. It was sent to all consultants at that time, because it was such a painful time for everyone.
I'm sure there are places our money goes that we have no idea about.....all of us. You may be paying for things you purchase, and a portion of the money is going to causes you disagree with.....that's life. We do the best we can with the knowledge we have.

My concern, and you may not be aware of this....I don't know how long you have been with the company.......is that this issue caused a company-wide uproar, and damaged a lot of friendships and hurt so so many people - on both sides of the debate. I think it is below the belt to bring it all up again, when it is something that was resolved. It took a long time for some people to heal from that circus - so I am just asking that we move forward, and not rehash it all again - please?

 

[lkprescott]

Umm... not everyone believes in Hell... or Satan... or Heaven for that matter. Just as some on this thread have said they don't believe in magic. I respect your right to believe that, I'd hope that same respect can be reciprocated but it seems there's this dang nasty need to be right... as in correct so the other side can be wrong. I'm reminded of a story about 7 blind men who are asked to give their 'views' of an elephant. Each grabs a part and an argument ensues over who is right... it's a rope, it's a fan, it's a tree.... and so they go... each arguing pointlessly of course that they are right thereby the others are wrong. Moral of the story? They're ALL right... True respect can be given when one can say thatthey are right without denying that same benefit to the other. I say to each his own which is why I posted the suggestion that folks agree to disagree. Otherwise we quickly find ourselves in a quagmire going back and forth trying our best to be right... when we are... regardless of what side we're on. Ultimately, we're right for who we are... I know some may argue that simply by saying these words makes me wrong... I'll simply remind them to not be so 'blinded' by their own 'view' of the 'elephant' and allow tolerance for those with a different 'view'.

 

[sailortena]

Exactly. That's one of the things I was attempting to express with my previous post.

 

[etteluap70PC]

I also say let's not rehash the whole Warren Buffet / planned parenthood debate. This was a MAJOR upheval in the company.

Buffet cut off his direct corporate contributions to Planned Parenthood as a response to all the upheeval.

 

[jasonmva]

Becky - I was skimming through the other post about who has read the bible and how much. I read your post and copied it here (I hope you don't mind) because, unless I totally missed the point, I like what it had said, especially the bolded part:

Because the Word of God is a supernatural work - although it is constant and never-changing - it can speak to people in different ways at different times of their lives....it speaks to the circumstances in our lives and gives us the guidance we need for specific needs we are facing. This is why reading it straight through from front to back, while it could be educational, is not the way it is intended to be read. It is actual a collection of 66 individual books wrapped into one.

This is one thing that I have been trying to say in my many posts on this thread. It is speaking to me in one way but could to someone else a completely different way. This is where I have had the point about interpretation. Now, I have also been told on this thread that because I believe this (1) I will more than likely end up in Hell and (2) I am following a watered down version of the bible.

For all: I will never say that I am right or wrong about any of the comments I have made, nor do I regret any of them. I have been expressing my opinions and hopefully making some see another point of view (again, not a right or worng, just a different one). I can admit that there are some who strongly believe that every single word written is the law of the land (as so is our Constitution and all laws passed by our legislation). What has gotten me a bit riled up on this thread is that I am being told flat out by people that I am wrong and unless I become "saved" I will never truly know God. I have a relationship with God already. Yes, we talk. I can agree to disagree. What I have a difficult time with is that when I ask a question about something, I am all of the sudden being quoted scripture and not being told by you personally. I can quote things too, like the Constitution that says "All men are created equal". Now, do you interpret that as the physical being of man (not woman or child) or do you take it as a person.

 

[janetupnorth]

Jason and to the rest that feel there is a need to be right or wrong. There isn't a "need", we are just strong in our beliefs. We (collectively) quote scripture because that is what our beliefs are based on and what we hold to be true. You argue a point and someone argues it back based on scripture. Those on both sides commenting are strong in their beliefs so I don't see any give happening either way.I personally cannot tell you whether you will go to heaven or hell, that is between you and God, only how I believe you can get there. I just pray that you have made the right choice and I will see you in heaven someday because my heart aches for those who are lost. I am done commenting because this will go on forever. Only the Holy Spirit can open your hearts and minds, not a person, so for those seeking, keep seeking, you will find what you are looking for when you seek with all your heart. For those not or in another viewpoint, I believe you will face the same God I will some day and be held accountable. If you are comfortable with the choices you have made so be it - you have been given the same opportunities as I on which path to choose and God will be our judge someday. Have a good day...

 

[jrstephens]

Because the Word of God is a supernatural work - although it is constant and never-changing - it can speak to people in different ways at different times of their lives....it speaks to the circumstances in our lives and gives us the guidance we need for specific needs we are facing.

You are enterpreting Becky's word in a way she did not intend them to be. She does not mean they tell each person something different on how they should live, she is meaning that at times in our lives different parts of the Bible will speak more and mean more to us than in other times. I know this from personal experience. When I am going through a personal tragedy or something that is worrying me or a decision that needs to be made in my life a certain passage of scripture will mean more to me at that point. For example, If I am going through loosing a loved one scriptures that talk about seeing them again in Heaven if they are a Christian will mean more to me at that time than a scripture that tells me I should tithe to God.

 

[jrstephens]

"Jesus told Him, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6"

.

As far as there being more than one way to Heaven, I repeat what I have said before.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Different view pointsI think it's great how we can all discuss different view points on here in a respectful and civilized manner.

And to answer you Jason, yes I am a Christian and for that reason I purposely waited until the issue with WB was resolved before I signed up to sell PC. I find that it was. True we can't always know where our money is going to, especially in a world that is full of sinful things that go against God and his Word. Does that mean we boycott everything and live in a cave? No.

It means if something is very dear to our heart and we choose to really defend that cause with the Lord's leading we should do it. And it that means boycotting a certain company, then that's what is going to happen. It's a great way to get our message across.

And I also believe in absolute truth. I believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Period. There is no other way according to God's word. And I believe God's word to be infallible and what I live by. Two different religions cannot both be right. One must be right and the other wrong. If I say the grass is green and someone says "Well maybe it's green to you, but to me I think it's purple."
That doesn't mean I smile and nod in agreement because I wish not to offend or seem close minded, I speak the truth. "No it's green." Now does that mean God's truth is always the popular choice, of course not. Janet quoted a perfect scripture, the bible says few will find it (way to eternal life).

"If there was one true religion, wouldn't we all follow it?" No, not everyone will get into heaven and not everyone knows God.

Jesus was not just a prophet or a wise man. He was God in the flesh, sent down to die in our place for the sin of the world. He came to redeem man and to give us a way to be reconciled to God. There is no other way.
HE said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Debbie