Movie Warning for All You Christians Out There!!!

[sarahlegare]

Okay, I have never figured out how to quote someone else's text, so bear with me.

As far as women being silent in church and husbands ruling over them...We had this discussion in our ladies study group. The pastor's wife who studies constantly told us that from her reading she understands that in "Bible" time, when there was preaching that the women would begin to question out loud...across the room, in groups, etc...what the speaker meant. Services became out of hand...you know how we women can be...and the behavior was disgraceful. As for men ruling over women. The Bible says that the husband is the head of the household. Does that mean that the husband is the dicatator of the household? NO! God says that we are all created equal, but someone has to be in charge. A husband and wife should discuss things, study them out and make an informed decision. But, the husband is responsible for his household. He must answer to God for his wife and children. So, his final decision is the way it will be. Will he always be right...not if he hasn't spent time in prayer and studied, and looked at each situation from all sides. Does this scripture mean husbands should abuse their wives? NO! Once again, he must answer to God for his treatment of his family. He is responsible for the spiritual welfare of his family. He must live a good example in front of them. If he is unsaved and his wife and children are saved, they still must be in submission to him. Because God says so. But, he also promised that through her, that unsaved loved one would be saved. He promises that if we do all that we are suppose to do, he will save our family. It may be on their death bed after they have done something horrible, but he never goes back on a promise.

Back further in the thread someone talked about eating pork and shell fish. Shell fish contains minerals that if over-eaten can harm our bodies. And, yes at one time the jews were not suppose to eat pork...cloven hooves. However, there is a passage...and I don't have my Bible handy, so maybe someone can find the exact scripture...in which a man of God is on a rooftop. A blanket from Heaven comes down with all kinds of meat...including pork...and he refuses the food God has provided because it is unclean. God tells him that nothing he created is unclean. If God was feeding this man pork, then I think we can eat it too.

The Bible is still as true today as it was when it was written. It was written by God with men's hands. He inspired every word.

The biggest thing I see in this thread...and in the world...is that everyone keeps saying "religion does this, or religion does that". As a Christian I do not stand on religion. I stand on Jesus. I am a follower of Christ...hence the name Christian. Religion is bad. Everyone has religion...the pharasees had religion. They stood on the law, but they were so caught up in the law they forgot what they were sent here to do. Worship God and tell everyone they knew about him. All we ever hear is how bad Christians are because they are intolerant, they discriminate, etc. All over the US people can erect monuments to other "religions", but we can't put up a nativity scene because it is intolerant of other people's beliefs. Our children are constantly being told they can't wear Christian clothing, or Pro-life clothing, or clothing that denies homosexuality. But people can wear pro-choice or shirts to support abortion, they can wear a shirt declaring how great it is to be a homosexual, and even clothes that condemn the Christian faith. Now, who is intolerant. If a preacher says that homosexuality is a sin it is considered hate speech. As a Christian person I do not condemn the PERSON in sin...whatever sin it is, they are all the same in God's eyes...I condemn the sin. Christian people do not go around blowing up people and buildings in the name of Christ.

After saying all of that I must say that not everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian. "The Church" is slandered and condemned because of the actions of people. Jesus says we will know them by their fruits...good or bad. I know people who will tell you they are a Christian all day long. They talk it up good. But, their actions say otherwise. The Bible says that "not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter in". But, God does not want anyone to perish.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, when the angels came to take Lot away, the men of the village tried to break down the door and lay with them. It says that in the last days it will be like in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. Folks we are there today. Every proficy has been fulfilled except for the 2nd returning of Jesus Christ. We better be ready.

AMEN!! Well said Shawnna!! I AM READY!! The Lord God is my savior, He died on the cross for my sins & I AM READY to be with Him!! I totally agree~these are the end times & we all must be ready!!

Oh yeah, & thanks for the warning on the movie~I forwarded it to my pastor who has asked me to forward it to our church! Thanks again!!

 

[Chef Kearns]

So Cathy are you saying that because I do not agree that me being gay is a sin and because I spoke up for my beliefs that God will not say the same thing to me? I'm sorry but I firmly believe that while the Bible may be the word of God, it was not written by him or anyone during his time, they are stories that aide us in learning lessons. .

Jason, I think it was very clear that Cathy's statement was a pure and loving statement. She did not say it or mean it with malice. I do find it curious though that you have found fault with it. Why does it bother you so much? She was not excluding anyone. She was just proud of the other Christians on the board

As for the comments about Christians getting a bad rap for things, it is not so much that they get a bad rap, but whenever they have disagreements with others, the first thing a majority, not all, Christians do is start taking out their bibles and quote scripture like it is the law of the land.

The reason Christians will immediately go for their bibles is because it IS the law of their lives! The bible is our guidebook/lawbook. People who do not follow Christ and know Him as their personal savior won't understand why we treasure the Word of God so dearly. When you are saved you can feel the words of the Lord nourishing your soul as you read His word. So yes, we quote scripture because it is our guide for life.

And most importantly, from all of my years in religion education classes, I KNOW that God made me in His own image. Therefore, God is the one that chose me to be gay. That is probably because he knew I would be a fighter for equal rights.

I know that being gay as you are you must live in a constant state of defensiveness. Christians differ, like all people, on what they feel on the homosexuality issue, but I believe that the bible is clear on it. We are to hate the sin and love the sinner. Anyone who is hating you or anyone else who is sinning in this manner is sinning themselves. So, could they throw the first stone...NO!! That is the point of that story. You must read the story in its entirity. It is incredibly poignant.

I know I am opening up a can of worms here, but I have to say this...Yes, you are gay by choice. Not God's, but your own. Sin is a hard thing to deal with. You never have to deal with it if you never identify your actions as sin.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

The BibleThe bible is such a central part (as well as prayer) to the Christian. A person cannot be a Christian and not desire the Word of God or prayer.

It's like saying "You're a pampered chef consultant, why are you reading things out of that PC catalog to describe the products?"

It's part of who we are. It is a living book! Not a dusty book to be pulled off the shelf only on Sundays or worst only on holidays! And no it was not just written by men. God used men inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the words God chose to give to us. It reveals who He is, his nature, attributes, and truth! Truth that may not always be easy to swallow. I know when I heard things about my sin, I was uncomfortable but I knew God's Word never lies.
Crack open the bible and read these scriptures for yourself. To suggest that God's Word is only a book written by men is WRONG! To know our God and Savior Jesus Christ is to know his Word.

2 Peter 1:20-21 says, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

1 Corinthians 2:13 states, "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words." God impressed man with His message, then the individual author, using his own style of expression based on his personal, educational, and cultural resources put the message into words.

Romans 10:8 phrased it this way: ". . .The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart. . ." God communicated to the author the content that He wanted written, and the author phrased the content with his skill, style, mind, and language. We can be certain that, although the very words came from each author, the message was as God had intended and is authentic, reliable, and infallible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 reads, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." We are told that the Bible is not only the words of God, but it has great benefit to us.

Colossians 3:16 admonishes us to "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."

Debbie

 

[jenne]

And most importantly, from all of my years in religion education classes, I KNOW that God made me in His own image. Therefore, God is the one that chose me to be gay. That is probably because he knew I would be a fighter for equal rights.

God created us in His image in that we have a soul that will live for eternity. God also gave man a free will, and with that free will man CHOSE to sin. I don't doubt that you could have been born with an inner desire to lie with another man. I also don't doubt that some people are born with a desire to take other people's things, or a desire to murder, or a desire to lie with multiple women, it's called a sin nature. Just because that desire exists, doesn't make it right to act on that desire. It still isn't right for someone who desires to have other people's things to steal...or for someone who desires to murder, to kill....or someone who desires to lie with multiple women to do so. They are still sins. We all struggle with desires of one sort or another that God sees as sin. Whether or not we choose to act on those sinful desires is what God will judge one day. I will not judge you on your lifestyle, you are a human being, created in God's image and my only wish for any human being is that they come to the saving knowledge of Christ. I won't doubt your salvation, if you trust Christ and Him alone for your salvation, then you are saved and I'll let the Holy Spirit work on any sin that may be in your life, just as He is continually working on me to remove sin from my life. Please don't think that I have anything against you because I am no better than anyone.

I think that one thing we can get out of this thread is that yes, we all have freedom of speech and freedom of religion and thank our great country for that. I'm glad I have the freedom to choose what I read, watch and the freedom to raise my children in such a way that I see fit. I'm glad I have the freedom to share my beliefs and that others around me can freely share theirs as well, even though they may vary greatly.

I also believe that we need to remember that we are free to make choices because, from God, we have a free will. I don't care what other people think about me or about what I say, I care about what God thinks...because only His judgement is what matters. I pray that each of you remembers that God is the final judge, and whether we believe it or not, we will all give an account someday. I am thankful to Him that Christ's blood covers my sin so that God can see me as clean when I stand before Him, because in reality I am nothing but a filthy sinner and no better than anyone else in this world. I am so far from perfect, but thank God, I am redeemed!! Praise God that He sent His Son to pay the penalty for our sins on the cross, to become sin for us and then RISE AGAIN!! I don't know what I'd be like without that good news!

This was not intended to be a personal anything toward anyone...It is just my rambling, and I guess really doesn't have much to do with the original post, so probably doesn't even belong here....but I want everyone who reads this thread to have heard God's truth, so that none can say that they never heard....once you've heard the truth, you have to act on it one way or another...either believe, or don't...I pray that you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ so you will be saved.

Now that I've rambled, you all can move on with this thread!

 

[Chef Kearns]

Jenne-you said what I wanted to say only wayyyy better! Thank you!

 

[jasonmva]

I know that being gay as you are you must live in a constant state of defensiveness. Christians differ, like all people, on what they feel on the homosexuality issue, but I believe that the bible is clear on it. We are to hate the sin and love the sinner. Anyone who is hating you or anyone else who is sinning in this manner is sinning themselves. So, could they throw the first stone...NO!! That is the point of that story. You must read the story in its entirity. It is incredibly poignant.

I know I am opening up a can of worms here, but I have to say this...Yes, you are gay by choice. Not God's, but your own. Sin is a hard thing to deal with. You never have to deal with it if you never identify your actions as sin.

Your view on my homosexuality is because of the way you interpret the words in the Bible. As I mentioned before, the bible is based on interpretation. You are going to view it differently than I will because of how we each chose to live our lives.

And I respectfully disagree that God did not chose for me to be gay. This is the way he wanted me to be born. It was not a choice by be, this is the way I was created.

 

[MissChef]

Jason, I think it was very clear that Cathy's statement was a pure and loving statement. She did not say it or mean it with malice. I do find it curious though that you have found fault with it. Why does it bother you so much? She was not excluding anyone. She was just proud of the other Christians on the board




The reason Christians will immediately go for their bibles is because it IS the law of their lives! The bible is our guidebook/lawbook. People who do not follow Christ and know Him as their personal savior won't understand why we treasure the Word of God so dearly. When you are saved you can feel the words of the Lord nourishing your soul as you read His word. So yes, we quote scripture because it is our guide for life.



I know that being gay as you are you must live in a constant state of defensiveness. Christians differ, like all people, on what they feel on the homosexuality issue, but I believe that the bible is clear on it. We are to hate the sin and love the sinner. Anyone who is hating you or anyone else who is sinning in this manner is sinning themselves. So, could they throw the first stone...NO!! That is the point of that story. You must read the story in its entirity. It is incredibly poignant.

I know I am opening up a can of worms here, but I have to say this...Yes, you are gay by choice. Not God's, but your own. Sin is a hard thing to deal with. You never have to deal with it if you never identify your actions as sin.

Thanks Chef Kearns, I didn't reply last night because I was baffled by how my words were pulled out of context and misinterpretated (sp?). Exactly what you said is what I was doing!
And what you ladies said about the bible is exactly what I feel. It's not about interpretation, it is the law and it's very clear, you just need to get the religious tradition out of you head and really READ it! It's very clear.
I do not believe in Jason's choices but it's his life and I will not judge him. And I am with some of the others, I do believe it's a choice, not the way we are made. I have my issues in life and I struggle at times to choose the right path but I know that I will need to answer to God and that makes me choose the right path most of the time.(and when I don't, and sin, I repent and try to stay away from the temptation.) And if I'm confused I go to the bible because I know it has all the answers, because it is the Living Word of God.

 

[jasonmva]

Thanks Chef Kearns, I didn't reply last night because I was baffled by how my words were pulled out of context and misinterpretated (sp?). Exactly what you said is what I was doing!
And what you ladies said about the bible is exactly what I feel. It's not about interpretation, it is the law and it's very clear, you just need to get the religious tradition out of you head and really READ it! It's very clear.
I do not believe in Jason's choices but it's his life and I will not judge him. And I am with some of the others, I do believe it's a choice, not the way we are made. I have my issues in life and I struggle at times to choose the right path but I know that I will need to answer to God and that makes me choose the right path most of the time.(and when I don't, and sin, I repent and try to stay away from the temptation.) And if I'm confused I go to the bible because I know it has all the answers, because it is the Living Word of God.

Maybe this will show you how the bible is the same way. Any word written can be interpreted in many different ways by many different people. Again, these were stories written by people who were not around and the time of Christ and they are written to (hopefully) teach lessons. You have every right to interpret them as the actual word of God just as I have every right to interpret them as stories. Does this make me less of a believer than you? In your eyes I am sure it does, but again that is your opinion.

And let me ask you this...if being gay is choice, do you think ANYONE would really chose to live this way? All of the hate and discrimination that is placed against us? C'mon let's be honest...being gay is NOT a choice, just like our ethnicity was not a choice or our parents were not a choice. See if you can think about it without running to your bible first to point out a verse that you feel makes your opinion right.

 

[Chef Kearns]

And let me ask you this...if being gay is choice, do you think ANYONE would really chose to live this way? All of the hate and discrimination that is placed against us? C'mon let's be honest...being gay is NOT a choice, just like our ethnicity was not a choice or our parents were not a choice. See if you can think about it without running to your bible first to point out a verse that you feel makes your opinion right.

Consider this Jason, maybe God gave you this sinful urging for you to overcome them and live your life as a testimony to Him?

 

[jasonmva]

Consider this Jason, maybe God gave you this sinful urging for you to overcome them and live your life as a testimony to Him?

And maybe he also gave me this wonderful gift to help some people open their eyes to other possibilities. And again, judging what I do is sinful is being sinful yourself because you have no right to judge me, regardless what you believe the bible says. There is also something called humanity and compassion. Have I onced judged you for your beliefs or your lifestyle? Um no. But I can start if we would like.

I am sure you are also one of those people that believe marriage should be defined as one man and one woman instead of one person to loves another. Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me because trust me, I tried walking in the shoes of a heterosexual person and it wasn't fun.

And please don't start preaching to me either. That is what I attend church for.

 

[pckelly]

It's not opinions that make anyone right. For us christians, it is the Word of God that IS right! Faith and believing in Christ, can't be just to believe Christ. It has to be backed up by action. I can't say I believe in God and Christ and not back it up with His Word. The Bible is only interpreted by people who don't consult God in wanting to know if what is says is truth. We don't interpret His words. We seek God as we read His word and He reveals that Word to us. I can guarentee that if a person is open to hear what God has to say, ask for the forgiveness of their sins before they read, and ask God to reveal what His word is saying to them, He WILL let them know what sin in your life He wants gone. Leviticus 18:22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. 1 Cor. 6:16 "In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another." God designed our bodies, as he did with Adam and Eve, designed them to perfectly fit together. Anything else is not God's intention. I have aunts that are gay, have been together for 25 years. I love them both with all my heart, love seeing them every holiday. But I don't approve of their sin, and I teach my son not to approve of the sin. I love them very much, but I don't have to love their sin. God desined our bodies to fit with the OPPOSITE sex, not the same. I absolutely DO NOT believe that God creates anyone to be gay. We are all born sinners, if we weren't we wouldn't have the need for a Savior! Homosexuality is a perversion that Satan uses to change the way God intended men and women to do. That's what Satan does, is he trys his hardest to go against anything God has designed. I know of someone that fights homosexual thoughts on a daily basis. Fights is the key word here. Does not believe they were born that way, but knows Satan is trying really hard, and this person fights this temptation on almost a daily basis. Satan smiles when he knows someone gives in to that perversion of sex because he knows God detests it. Not the person, but the sin. And like I said in my earlier posts, homosexuality is no different that lying, stealing, commiting adultry, and so on. Sin is Sin in Gods eyes and we cannot approach Him confidently when we have apparent and evident sin in our lives.

 

[pckelly]

And again, judging what I do is sinful is being sinful yourself because you have no right to judge me, regardless what you believe the bible says. .

No one is judging you, do you not understand that we are already being judged by God, by the way we are living our lives??

 

[Chef Kearns]

I'm sorry if it comes across as judgemental. I am in NO WAY saying that I am without sin. I just want to call an orange an orange here.

I can tell that you've had many hurtful experiences because of this choice and I'm sorry for that. Like I've tried to make clear in my earlier posts I do not hold any ill-will towards you.

We disagree. That's it and that's all. We are not all going to agree (on most things). What you do and what I do will be judged by our maker.

However; we have been commissioned to hold each other accountable also. When my good friend, a Christian, is straying from the mark or missing it I am responsible for gently guiding her back. Not judging her, but helping her see it. And she has the same responsibility to me. If she see me doing something she knows I ought not do then she holds me to the standards of our Lord Jesus. And because I know she is speaking to me in the Love of Jesus I cannot hold her at fault.

I am not making personal attacks against you. I'm sorry if you feel that way though. You brought your lifestyle to the table earlier so I thought we were free to discuss it. I guess it has gone too far for you. Am I right?

 

[daniellemorgan]

I've read painfully through all of this and I must say that I am SOOO happy I am not as close minded as many of you. I am thankful that I have a daughter who I will raise to believe in the happiness and well-being of all people regardless of their circumstances or lifestyle. I wish I could say that I don't judge people, but at times it's hard not to when such silliness comes out of their mouths. To think that for someone to choose a lifestyle or sexual preference is absurd. To Jason: Are you happy? Are you living the best most honest life for yourself? I would like to think so. Many of you probably can't say the same for yourself. If you can then that's amazing and I'm happy for you. How does that old saying go: Remember when you point one finger three are pointing back at you....Oh and by the way it's just a movie. Just don't go see it! I wish all the energy that "christians" put into boycotting works of fiction would be utilized for better things, like saving the environment. Most people probably have their minds made up about their beliefs and lifestyle, so to think that your preaching could sway them baffles me. If by chance you would be successful in swaying them, shame on you. They are probably very weak-minded and telling them that God is the way isn't fair.

 

[lkprescott]

Perhaps it may be wisest to agree to disagree at this point. I'll chance it to say that on this topic with the folks we have here there's no changing sides, on either sides... sometimes that's just the way it is. There's nothing wrong with that, if you ask me. Others may argue that it is... a fruitless argument if ever there was one... I've always seen true debate as not forcing change on either side but to allow the opposing side to at least see what the other side is saying... even if it's ultimately to agree to disagree. Human history is too riddled already with humans forcing change on other humans through torture, torment and sadly for some it continues (emotionally not always physically)... some may say that that's not what they're doing here but when you label someone something negative and hope in your heart that they change... what is it? No I'm not pointing a finger at any one person... but some of the words here... I just cringe and feel what God would condone such thoughts... not a God I wish to know. The only one we can and should change is ourselves. I'd hope we can find love and peace to accept each other, regardless of the differences (thats the hippie in me coming out). We don't all believe in sin, Hell or Satan or that the Bible is any more than a book of stories... that's the beauty of diversity when one has the eyes open to appreciate it.

 

[pckelly]

The words that have come out of every christian on this post are all words that have come straight from His word. And by Christian, I mean Christ-like, not religion. His Word doesn't lie. It is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesn't have to condone them, HE wrote them!

 

[Chef Kearns]

I've read painfully through all of this and I must say that I am SOOO happy I am not as close minded as many of you. I am thankful that I have a daughter who I will raise to believe in the happiness and well-being of all people regardless of their circumstances or lifestyle. I wish I could say that I don't judge people, but at times it's hard not to when such silliness comes out of their mouths. To think that for someone to choose a lifestyle or sexual preference is absurd.

To Jason: Are you happy? Are you living the best most honest life for yourself? I would like to think so. Many of you probably can't say the same for yourself. If you can then that's amazing and I'm happy for you.

How does that old saying go: Remember when you point one finger three are pointing back at you....

Oh and by the way it's just a movie. Just don't go see it! I wish all the energy that "christians" put into boycotting works of fiction would be utilized for better things, like saving the environment. Most people probably have their minds made up about their beliefs and lifestyle, so to think that your preaching could sway them baffles me. If by chance you would be successful in swaying them, shame on you. They are probably very weak-minded and telling them that God is the way isn't fair.

When you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.

 

[jasonmva]

ChefKearns - I don't have any problems discussing or defending my sexuality. It is who I am. I am glad that the relationship you have with your friend allows each of you to question the other when you don't believe the other should or should not be doing something. Friends can do that for one another.

PCKelly - why thank you for considering my lifestyle, and ultimately me, a perversion. Is that the same as me saying you are closed-minded because you will not even consider listening to something someone else has to say that doesn ot conform with your beliefs?

Danielle: I am very happy. I have been in a committed, monogomous realtionship with my partner for the last 5 1/2 years. I'm sure not even many staright couples can say that nowadays. And I am living my life honestly. I have accepted that I am gay and I am now part of the fight to show we are just like your neighbors and friends.

I would like to end by saying that I hope those of you that are strict believers of what the Bible says does not have any children who later on in life come out to you as gay because you will push them away and make them feel they are not loved by you. And don't say that you know your children won't be gay because you have taught them that it is wrong. Kids are smarter than you think.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Just a quick question (hopefully) to those of you who are heterosexualid you CHOOSE to be that way?

 

[jasonmva]

The words that have come out of every christian on this post are all words that have come straight from His word. And by Christian, I mean Christ-like, not religion. His Word doesn't lie. It is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesn't have to condone them, HE wrote them!

And the words form those who you classify as non-christian have come from life and the willingness to accept others for who they are and not what they believe

 

[Chef Kearns]

Just a quick question (hopefully) to those of you who are heterosexual:

Did you CHOOSE to be that way?

Like we said earlier we are each born with differenct sinful urges. Mine is not homosexuality. My sinful urges are of a different nature. No one is saying that being gay will send someone straight to the fiery pit! I think close-mindedness runs on both sides of this debate. Listen to the words. I think one or two sentences get read and then you make up your mind about what you are going to say before you finish the rest of the post.

 

[pckelly]

You keep saying we don't accept you as a person. It has been said time and time again in these posts, it's the SIN that cannot be accepted. Just like when my son lies, I still love him and accept him, but I will not accept his sin. I will rebuke it. Like I said in my earlier posts about my aunts. I accept them, love them, talk with them, hug them. Do you think I could do that if I didn't accept them as people all together? NO. I don't accept their sin, that's it. Period!!!!!

 

[cmdtrgd]

Like we said earlier we are each born with differenct sinful urges. Mine is not homosexuality. My sinful urges are of a different nature. No one is saying that being gay will send someone straight to the fiery pit! I think close-mindedness runs on both sides of this debate. Listen to the words. I think one or two sentences get read and then you make up your mind about what you are going to say before you finish the rest of the post.

First off, that last sentence feels judgemental to me. I'm not saying it is (see how things CAN be interpreted), but you don't know that I don't read every single post!!!

Secondly, sex is NOT a sinful urge....I believe (and I'm not quoting) that in the bible it says to go forth and multiply. How are we supposed to do that without sex? Did you realize that ALL of your ancestors had sex? Otherwise you wouldn't be here!!!

We all have things about ourselves that we want to change. I do NOT want to change the fact that I love my husband and our intimate times together. Why should someone who finds someone to love and who loves him/her back be denied that? We are social beings and genetically crave love, intimacy and safety in numbers. ARGH! Sometimes I cry because of what my family members and friends have to go through just to have love from another being!!! Did you CHOOSE who you were attracted to? NO! Did you CHOOSE which sex you are attracted to? NO! BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE - WHO WOULD WANT IT!

Did you know that people in committed relationships for a certain amount of time (depends on the state of residence) are considered married for purposes of taxes, family rights (kids, medical, etc) and inheritance rights AS LONG AS THEY HAVE DIFFERENT GENETALIA??? WTF? Who cares if I have a penis or vagina? I'm not letting ANYONE but my husband and my OBGYN check!

Did you know that if two people are in a gay relationship and one of them gets a sex change, EVERYTHING CHANGES???? They can now get married, adopt kids, be "normal" in the eyes of churches. I am amazed at the hypocracy (sp?)!!!

 

[smarteez2]

Went and bought...I just have to say I went out and bought Philip Pullman's Book last night it has all 3 stories The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass just because of this thread. I have no religiuos preference whatsoever but it is interesting to read everybodies view points. Now I will get to read the books and find out what all the hoopla is about. I like to experience things for myself to find out if they are right for me. And quite honastly the movie looks good as well. But I will decide after I read the books. I am glad that we live in America where we can each decide for ourselves what we choose to do. After being in Iraq where it is not so easy I appreciate our country so much more and am thankful for everyday I have had and am going to have. We are the melting pot of the world you know!!

 

[Chef Kearns]

First off, that last sentence feels judgemental to me. I'm not saying it is (see how things CAN be interpreted), but you don't know that I don't read every single post!!!

It sounds like you've decided to pick a fight today. I hope you don't find one.

Secondly, sex is NOT a sinful urge....I believe (and I'm not quoting) that in the bible it says to go forth and multiply. How are we supposed to do that without sex? Did you realize that ALL of your ancestors had sex? Otherwise you wouldn't be here!!!

No one has said that sex is a sinful urge. Sex is wonderful and God created it for us to enjoy. One man to one woman. He told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. Multiplication is IMPOSSIBLE in a homosexual relationship! There is a whole book of the bible dedicated to passion, lust and sex. It is a glorious and beautiful thing in the correct context.

 

[jasonmva]

You keep saying we don't accept you as a person. It has been said time and time again in these posts, it's the SIN that cannot be accepted. Just like when my son lies, I still love him and accept him, but I will not accept his sin. I will rebuke it. Like I said in my earlier posts about my aunts. I accept them, love them, talk with them, hug them. Do you think I could do that if I didn't accept them as people all together? NO. I don't accept their sin, that's it. Period!!!!!

And I have also said in posts time and time again, that is your INTERPRETATION of what you think my sin is. I do not view my lifestyle as sin because it is the way God chose for me to be.

And honestly, yes I think you have a difficult time accepting your aunts because of their lifestyle choice. You can say you love anyone until the cows come home. But the full acceptance of them is them with all of their baggage. Homosexuality is part of a person. Therefore you cannot accept them wholly because you think their lifestyle is a sin.

 

[daniellemorgan]

I stand for so much more than you could even imagine, but because I don't believe in the FICTIONAL book called the bible then I stand for nothing. That's pretty pathetic.

Oh and trust I don't fall for anything I fall for factual information. If I did fall for anything, I would be sitting in a church every Sunday morning.

 

[lkprescott]

I just have to say I went out and bought Philip Pullman's Book last night it has all 3 stories The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass just because of this thread. I have no religiuos preference whatsoever but it is interesting to read everybodies view points. Now I will get to read the books and find out what all the hoopla is about. I like to experience things for myself to find out if they are right for me. And quite honastly the movie looks good as well. But I will decide after I read the books. I am glad that we live in America where we can each decide for ourselves what we choose to do. After being in Iraq where it is not so easy I appreciate our country so much more and am thankful for everyday I have had and am going to have. We are the melting pot of the world you know!!

That's great! I remarked to a friend that I hadn't gotten the chance to finish the third one and she urged me to, especially because I really got a lot out of the first two. I may head to the library tomorrow and get it to finish or see if they have it on 'tape'... of course, I'll have to pay off my library fine :blushing: ... it's awful, for having used to work in a library you'd think I'd know better.

 

[pckelly]

They can now get married, adopt kids, be "normal" in the eyes of churches. I am amazed at the hypocracy (sp?)!!!

In the eyes of churches? Now who is being judgemental? I know plenty of unsaved, non christian people who DO NOT accept homosexuality. You make it seem like just churches feel that way.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Yes, multiplication is impossible in a homosexual relationship. However, I do know that there are thousands upon thousands of children who need loving parents and in a lot of states homosexual partners are not allowed to shelter, love, teach and raise these children. I think that is sad.As for wanting to pick a fight, if YOU reread my post you will see that I was being very nice and showing that your previous post made me feel like you were being judgemental. How is that picking a fight? I was making a point and letting you know that you were making a comment that 1. had nothing to do with the conversation and 2. you had no proof nor any reason to think that I wasn't reading all the posts all the way through. Why would you even say that? I don't get it.

 

[daniellemorgan]

That's great! I remarked to a friend that I hadn't gotten the chance to finish the third one and she urged me to, especially because I really got a lot out of the first two. I may head to the library tomorrow and get it to finish or see if they have it on 'tape'... of course, I'll have to pay off my library fine :blushing: ... it's awful, for having used to work in a library you'd think I'd know better.

i'm going tomorrow and checking all 3 books out of the library. let's see what everyone is so afraid of.

 

[jasonmva]

It sounds like you've decided to pick a fight today. I hope you don't find one.



No one has said that sex is a sinful urge. Sex is wonderful and God created it for us to enjoy. One man to one woman. He told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. Multiplication is IMPOSSIBLE in a homosexual relationship! There is a whole book of the bible dedicated to passion, lust and sex. It is a glorious and beautiful thing in the correct context.

So then if you are to only have sex to multiply then wouldn't be a sin if you did not always get pregnant when you had sex? And what about women (or men) who cannot have children due to a medical condition...are they to abstain from sex entirely?

Yes, I will give you that I cannot procreate, but let me ask it to you this way. What about all of those people who did and gave their kids up for adoption or abandoned them? Do you classify them as sinners since they did in fact multiply?

 

[pckelly]

IT IS POSSIBLE to accept someone and not accept their sin. ABSOLUTELY possible, so don't tell me I don't accept my aunts because they are gay. That is the love of Christ. To accept someone regardless. We are supposed to love people, ALL people, but God tells us to hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[cmdtrgd]

In the eyes of churches? Now who is being judgemental? I know plenty of unsaved, non christian people who DO NOT accept homosexuality. You make it seem like just churches feel that way.

The reason I picked the churches is that most do not accept homosexuality. Also, most of this thread was based on the christian religion. You are right, however, that I didn't mention other people who do not accept homosexuality. I just didn't know how to lump them into a group. Also, most marriages are done through religious organizations. That's what I meant. I did not intend to be judgmental but to make a point about religious organizations and how genitalia can deem who can and cannot get married in most religious organizations. I apologize if it sounded judgmental.

 

[pckelly]

Danielle, the original post was not intended to tell why we are afraid of the book. No one is AFRAID of the book or movie. The ORIGINAL POST was FOR CHRISTIANS who do not allow that material in their homes nor for their children to view, and ONE CHRISTIAN woman (Jennifer) was letting other christians know about this new movie. If a non christian came into this post specifically to wanting to know why us "christians" don't like it, then you came in looking for a debate!

 

[Chef Kearns]

Kate- the "you" in my statement was you-general not you-specific. However, I was basing my comment on the fact that many replies have come back from people flying off the handle and from not truly reading through the poster's words.

There is really no reason why someone would be in this thread that is not a Christian. The thread clearly states that it is information for Christians. If you choose to read the thread and comment, the least you could do is not JUDGE us for our beliefs. We want to protect our children from negative influences. Because the original poster is a Christian as other Christians are more than likely like-minded she wanted to give us a heads up. What's the big deal about that?! We will ultimately make up our own minds on what to do for our own families, but it was nice of her to post the information.

An adult reader should be able to read those books and not be swayed. However, the movie and the books (I think on the books) are geared towards children. That is what we are concerned about. There is no reason to introduce this concept to young people.

 

[pckelly]

Kate- the "you" in my statement was you-general not you-specific. However, I was basing my comment on the fact that many replies have come back from people flying off the handle and from not truly reading through the poster's words.

There is really no reason why someone would be in this thread that is not a Christian. The thread clearly states that it is information for Christians. If you choose to read the thread and comment, the least you could do is not JUDGE us for our beliefs. We want to protect our children from negative influences. Because the original poster is a Christian as other Christians are more than likely like-minded she wanted to give us a heads up. What's the big deal about that?! We will ultimately make up our own minds on what to do for our own families, but it was nice of her to post the information.

An adult reader should be able to read those books and not be swayed. However, the movie and the books (I think on the books) are geared towards children. That is what we are concerned about. There is no reason to introduce this concept to young people.

YES, you are ABSOLUTELY right!!!

 

[cmdtrgd]

ChefKearns - if you meant the "you" to be non specific, you probably shouldn't have quoted my post Just a suggestion, not an attack.Ummm....and who says I'm not christain?I find nothing wrong with the original post. If you remember some of my original posts in this thread I was more interested in people making a decision for themselves by reading the book before making a judgment. It is a good practice, it teaches our kids that they can make decisions based on their OWN experiences. I hate to see us erode away our rights (see my previous posts for more info on that) just because someone who says they have the same beliefs/wants/etc says not to watch or read or experience. It was a general plead, not a specific one. However, I have read the whole trilogy and saw nothing about anti-christian sentiments.I understand about not introducing specific things to young people, but do you know what they are? Curious, have you read the books? Again, not trying to pick a fight, but I wonder how many of the people on this thread have.

 

[Chef Kearns]

So then if you are to only have sex to multiply then wouldn't be a sin if you did not always get pregnant when you had sex?

No, and isn't that wonderful!! The bible says that we should only not be having sex for a (short) time then be joined together again! I never said and neither does that bible that we are only to have sex to have babies.

And what about women (or men) who cannot have children due to a medical condition...are they to abstain from sex entirely?

No. See above message.

Yes, I will give you that I cannot procreate, but let me ask it to you this way. What about all of those people who did and gave their kids up for adoption or abandoned them? Do you classify them as sinners since they did in fact multiply?

I cannot comment on them. They will have to answer to God. We all will.

 

[pckelly]

The reason I picked the churches is that most do not accept homosexuality. Also, most of this thread was based on the christian religion. You are right, however, that I didn't mention other people who do not accept homosexuality. I just didn't know how to lump them into a group. Also, most marriages are done through religious organizations. That's what I meant. I did not intend to be judgmental but to make a point about religious organizations and how genitalia can deem who can and cannot get married in most religious organizations. I apologize if it sounded judgmental.

Well I apologize for assuming you were being judgemental. The reason why most churches don't accept homosexuality is because they are aligned with the Word of God. If there are churches that are accepting it, then they are living with a watered down concept of the Bible and will stand in judgement for it one day.

 

[Chef Kearns]

I understand about not introducing specific things to young people, but do you know what they are? Curious, have you read the books? Again, not trying to pick a fight, but I wonder how many of the people on this thread have.

I will not put any money into the pockets of this author by buying his books. I have read a few interviews and reviews of his works. I don't have to read his books to know that I DON'T want to read them!

 

[cmdtrgd]

I have come across christians who think that black people should still be slaves because they are the "seed of Cain" I have come across christians who sexually abuse their kids. I have come across christians who beat their families. I have come across christians who are loving and who I want to pattern a lot of my behaviors around. I have come across christians who are gay.I have also come across people who call themselves Jews for Jesus...that one baffles me.My point is, each of us is responsible for ourselves and our families. Just because someone says they are christian (and I'm not talking about the original post, just the people I have come across) does not mean they have the same values and beliefs that other christians do. If you believe in heaven, when you come to those gates, will you be able to say that YOU made all your decisions or that you relied on others to make them for you?The you in this one is general

 

[cmdtrgd]

I will not put any money into the pockets of this author by buying his books. I have read a few interviews and reviews of his works. I don't have to read his books to know that I DON'T want to read them!

Then you ARE making an informed decision. That is why I started posting on this thread!!!

 

[daniellemorgan]

Danielle, the original post was not intended to tell why we are afraid of the book. No one is AFRAID of the book or movie. The ORIGINAL POST was FOR CHRISTIANS who do not allow that material in their homes nor for their children to view, and ONE CHRISTIAN woman (Jennifer) was letting other christians know about this new movie. If a non christian came into this post specifically to wanting to know why us "christians" don't like it, then you came in looking for a debate!

I will admit I came in here out of curiosity. I wanted to see what movie it was. I was reading through the posts again out of curiosity until I saw that Jason was being condoned for his homosexuality. I don't take well to bullying and that's what I felt was happening to him. I don't know him, but I can't sit back and just let that go on. I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked, but like I said if you are living an honest and happy life then I am happy for you. I do appreciated the fact that Jennifer is concerned about her, and others who share her beliefs, children. Nowadays when there is barely any parental monitoring it is refreshing to see. With that said, I did not come in here looking for a debate, but in the end I guess I got one, along with some new material to read.

 

[pckelly]

Jason was not getting condemned, at all. Nor was he getting bullied. Why would it not be the other way around? Because if it sounded like he was getting condmened, why wouldn't it sound like he was doing the same to the christians?

 

[jasonmva]

No, and isn't that wonderful!! The bible says that we should only not be having sex for a (short) time then be joined together again! I never said and neither does that bible that we are only to have sex to have babies.

Ok, now I am confused. A few posts ago didn't someone write that God created Adam and Eve to multiply (hence give birth) and so now you are telling me that having sex just to have sex without multiplying (pregnancy) is ok?!? You can't have it both ways. Either Adam and Eve were told to go forth and multiply or just have sex and if you happen to give birth, so be it.

Kelly -

First of all, all of these forums are for public viewing. If you feel non-Christians only came here looking for a debate, then you definately have something wrong with your thinking. To title something specifically for Christians on an non-religious thread could be viewed as discrimantory.

2nd - you said "If there are churches that are accepting it, then they are living with a watered down concept of the Bible and will stand in judgement for it one day". So does this mean that my church (which by the way is a Chirstian and predominately gay church) is using what you referred to as the water down version of the bible because it teaches me that God loves me for who I am and does not view what I do as a sin? And you are the high almighty power to know that churches who are gay friendly are using a watered down version how? If God wrote the bible and all churches use it, then there must only be 1 bible. For you to assume there are different bibles for different Christian churches is a sin I am sure

 

[daniellemorgan]

Jason was not getting condemned, at all. Nor was he getting bullied. Why would it not be the other way around? Because if it sounded like he was getting condmened, why wouldn't it sound like he was doing the same to the christians?

Somehow the movie warning turned into Dumbledore being gay, which in turn sparked all kinds of bible quoting and what not. Jason, being a gay christian man, stuck up for himself and others like him. Next thing you know, he's a sinner and so on. He was sticking up for himself while many were attacking him. He was asking questions while many were preaching. So I don't feel that anyone was being bullied except Jason. It seems everyone else was being challenged to think outside the box for a change.

 

[crystalscookingnow]

Somehow the movie warning turned into Dumbledore being gay, which in turn sparked all kinds of bible quoting and what not. Jason, being a gay christian man, stuck up for himself and others like him. Next thing you know, he's a sinner and so on. He was sticking up for himself while many were attacking him. He was asking questions while many were preaching. So I don't feel that anyone was being bullied except Jason. It seems everyone else was being challenged to think outside the box for a change.

Not once has a person posting scripture from the Bible said that they aren't a sinner as well. Everyone that is human is a sinner. In fact, I believe that many posts on here have stated that very point.

I'll go back to my post about taking snipets of scripture out of context & using them to fit the situation that one is talking about. It doesn't work. Actually, you can take any part of any book, remove a couple of words/sentences here & there & have a book or Bible in this case say exactly what you want it to say. **Please note - the you in my statement is not directed at any specific person. It's a general you.

 

[pckelly]

First of all Danielle, we are ALL sinners. We were born sinners. No one was telling Jason he was a sinner and we all weren't. I can say that for everyone that posted on this thread. We are all sinners, we all sin. We were pointing out that homosexuality is a sin, just like any other sin God talks about in the Bible. Sin is Sin in God's eyes, not one worse than the other. Period. I sin! We all sin. But, as a christian, I have the wonderful opportunity to go to Jesus Christ and ask Him to forgive me of my sin. All of my sins, and get them covered by the His redeeming blood. And two, what everyone is doing is not "Preaching", it is the spoken word of God. Preachers..preach. I am not a preacher, don't claim to be one. I speak the Word of God. The words I have read and have hidden in my heart, and have tried to align my life with are getting spoken, not preached. You only think it is preaching because that is how us christians always get tagged as doing...is preaching. We are SPEAKING the awesome power of the written Word of God, that's it.

And Jason, I didn't say anything about public viewing, I said "if they wanted to know why us christians didn't accept these movies or books". In order to do that, they posted. So when they posted that there is nothing wrong with this material, then yes, they were looking for a debate. Discriminatory? There's a thread going on right now about reading those books. I don't think that is being discriminated against because I don't read that or see that material. I certainly won't be in that thread asking them why they like them so much.

And I didn't say a different Bible. I'm sure you use the same Bible, but yes, obviously what comes out of it is a watered down concept. Because God's Word NEVER changes. God does love you and accept you!! BUT HE DOES NOT TOLERATE THE SIN!! That is what I have been trying to say!! Understand the difference!!! Quit assuming what I am trying to say and read it. HE LOVES EVERYONE. EVERYONE ON THIS WHOLE BOARD, LISTEN! JESUS CHRIST, GOD, HOLY SPIRIT, LOVES YOU WITH ALL HIS HEART AND SOUL. HE LONGS FOR A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU, LONGS FOR YOU TO SPEND TIME WITH HIM AND LOVE HIM. HE WANTS US TO COME TO HIM IN EACH AND EVERY SITUATION. BUT GOD IS A HOLY GOD. IN HIM THERE IS NO SIN. HE CANNOT LIE. SO WHEN HE SAYS SOMETHING IN HIS WORD, IT IS TRUTH. HE CANNOT LIE. HE WILL NOT TOLERATE SIN. NOT FROM ME, YOU, ANYONE. HE ACCEPTS US, LOVES US, BUT WILL NOT ACCEPT OUR SIN. THAT IS WHY JESUS CHRIST CAME TO THIS EARTH. TO DIE FOR OUR SINS, SO WE CAN COME TO THE FATHER, AFTER OUR SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED BY THE BLOOD. THANKYOU JESUS, FOR ALLOWING ME TO SAVED! THANKYOU FOR FORGIVING MY SINS EACH AND EVERY DAY. I NEED YOUR GRACE AND MERCY.

 

[daniellemorgan]

I'm so glad I'm not a christian. That's all I have to say