Movie Warning for All You Christians Out There!!!

[Chef Kearns]

Wow, my sisters in Christ I am sooo proud of you!! This is truly amazing! We as Christians are so hated upon in our so-called "FREE" country. Everyone else is "Free" except us!! However, we are truly free indeed!

 

[lkprescott]

If you're directing that at me, I can honestly say it truly depends on the topic. Most movie threads and many show threads I truly stay away from. You can talk about Harry Potter until you are blue in the face and I won't comment on it. I have many, many friends that read the books and/or watch the movies and let their kids do so. I choose not to watch them, not to have my kids watch them and do not make any comments on them because I have not watched them or reviewed them so I cannot even make an accurate statement on them to match or disagree with my beliefs.

I was directing it at anyone who chose to give it some thought.

 

[lkprescott]

Wow, my sisters in Christ I am sooo proud of you!! This is truly amazing! We as Christians are so hated upon in our so-called "FREE" country. Everyone else is "Free" except us!! However, we are truly free indeed!

This post is most curious to me... where are you seeing 'hate'?

 

[janetupnorth]

The initial poster called the author a 'jerk'. Now... perhaps that's not an attack per se... but had someone called the author of say The Left Behind series a jerk for writing what he did... I have a feeling folks would get upset.

I have read this thread over and over and actually, considering some of the things I've read over time on the internet, as far as info turning into debate, this has been a mild one and I dare say a pretty respectful one (comparatively speaking mind you).

Jerk comment noted...I reread that...I didn't take it as harsh...and I'm sure many have called Tim LaHaye or Jerry Jenkins jerks...

...and I would agree...it has been fairly mild and civil! I've seen all-out swearing, personal attacks and brawls before...we try to be civil here as coworkers!

 

[lkprescott]

Is anyone watching the world series? How's the weather?

World series? what's that? I guess that'd be a no as to watching it...

Weather? Been raining for like 2 days straight but that's good! Hopefully will pull us out of any drought that may have been threatening.. just wish the mercury would go lower... warm Octobers are NOT my cup of tea. We haven't even had a real frost yet! The furnace finally kicked on by itself today (prior to today I'd only started it up after cleaning it out to make sure all moving parts moved! LOL)... which is about 2 weeks later than last year (yeah, I made note of it... LOL)..

 

[lkprescott]

Jerk comment noted...I reread that...I didn't take it as harsh...and I'm sure many have called Tim LaHaye or Jerry Jenkins jerks...

...and I would agree...it has been fairly mild and civil! I've seen all-out swearing, personal attacks and brawls before...we try to be civil here as coworkers!

Don't know the folks you've written so I can honestly say I've not called them jerks. LOL... actually I tend not to throw out 'bad' names unless they've personally earned them with me (like my ex and then only when my son is not around, of course... he's coming to his own opinions about his dad thanks to his dad, not me). I used to work in a library and I absolutely LOVE books, yes ALL books. All kinds... I own old books for their weight, feel and smell (yes, I smell them *giggle*)... new books for their info... I've gotten a lot of books in my collection just for interest sake (as in they were interesting to me for one reason or another)... like my late ex-MIL had a ton of books (literally) that I took off her hands when she went to a home and she had a very odd collection indeed... anyway I now have a Freemason's Bible and a handbook from the Order of the Eastern Star I think it's called... I think it's supposed to be like a female mason order... I never knew that about her! Never knew my late ex-FIL was a freemason either...

Anyway... I personally don't understand when folks ban books... I've read books sure that offend... or try to sway my own personal faith or views but here's the thing... those who are strong won't be swayed. I also understand wanting to protect kids. I do so with information, some do it with banning. Though I will admit I have banned certain tv shows but only after having viewed them myself... I guess I don't understand banning something without making a first person experienced opinion...

 

[Chef Kearns]

This post is most curious to me... where are you seeing 'hate'?

I was not speaking merely of this thread or this site. I was speaking about our country as a whole. The word "Christian" has become a joke in our country. Everything about us is seen as weird, but that's okay. That is the way it should be. We SHOULD be different from the world.

 

[Chef Kearns]

Anyway... I personally don't understand when folks ban books... I've read books sure that offend... or try to sway my own personal faith or views but here's the thing... those who are strong won't be swayed. I also understand wanting to protect kids. I do so with information, some do it with banning. Though I will admit I have banned certain tv shows but only after having viewed them myself... I guess I don't understand banning something without making a first person experienced opinion...

But therein lies the rub...not everyone is strong. We are all in different spots in our walk. So we should test not lest we be tempted. It doesn't take much to convince someone who is not strong to do something that "feels" good.

 

[pckelly]

But therein lies the rub...not everyone is strong. We are all in different spots in our walk. So we should test not lest we be tempted. It doesn't take much to convince someone who is not strong to do something that "feels" good.

YOU ARE absolutely RIGHT!!

 

[lkprescott]

I was not speaking merely of this thread or this site. I was speaking about our country as a whole. The word "Christian" has become a joke in our country. Everything about us is seen as weird, but that's okay. That is the way it should be. We SHOULD be different from the world.

I know the feeling... but not as a Christian.

I'm sorry if you've had hate tossed at you... truly (I'm a big proponent of the saying "Hate is not a family value" - saw that on a bumper sticker once and it stuck.. the saying, not the sticker). I'm truly a believer in what one puts out into the world coming back... so negativity only breeds more negativity... hate doesn't make sense. Though trust me, I have had my moments, I just do my best to temper them and remind myself that most folks out there who toss out hate usually don't like something about themselves... but now, I'm rambling..

 

[Leigh0725]

I agree that this has been a very mild "debate." Sometimes having such debates are good. My SIL and her husband are southern baptist and I considered 'extreme liberal' in her eyes. I find it very interesting, having grown up in Southern California, moved to east coast (Boston area) for college and work and then ending up in the midwest. Yeah, it was quite a shock for me. Luckily my DH and I share a lot of the same view, or else it would be a tense household.

 

[tpchefrebecca]

Okay ladies I have to tell you what happened last night. After I posted my son comes up to me and asks "Is magic real?" He has asked before but that was a long time ago. I actually thought about what I posted and said the same thing, "No, honey it isn't real and if you see magic it is a trick of the eye. Do you understand? TRICK!". Then I thought about David Blain and then that other guy whom I can't remember but scares the cr** out of me with what he does. Then I thought about it and said to him that if he sees stuff on TV with "Real Magicians" it is dark magic and evil. Which I do beleive is true. So then I think I am creating a double standard. Is magic real? No I feel it is not. So what do I say when you see "magic" on reality TV? Dark and evil! It gives me the willies and when that happens it cannot be good. What do you all think of those supposed "Real Magicians?". And yes! I do turn off the TV or make my husband change the channel when they come on.

 

[tpchefrebecca]

I am only asking. NOT adding to the fire. I think this thread has been a good one to be honest and a true test.

 

[lkprescott]

Okay ladies I have to tell you what happened last night. After I posted my son comes up to me and asks "Is magic real?" He has asked before but that was a long time ago. I actually thought about what I posted and said the same thing, "No, honey it isn't real and if you see magic it is a trick of the eye. Do you understand? TRICK!". Then I thought about David Blain and then that other guy whom I can't remember but scares the cr** out of me with what he does. Then I thought about it and said to him that if he sees stuff on TV with "Real Magicians" it is dark magic and evil. Which I do beleive is true. So then I think I am creating a double standard. Is magic real? No I feel it is not. So what do I say when you see "magic" on reality TV? Dark and evil! It gives me the willies and when that happens it cannot be good. What do you all think of those supposed "Real Magicians?". And yes! I do turn off the TV or make my husband change the channel when they come on.

You're probably thinking of Criss Angel...

I think they're attention getters and actors. I actually can't stand Criss Angel... with the 'oooh, watch me levitate' stuff... sounds like some of the big talkers back on the elementary school playground only he gets paid for his trickery... and that's what it is. If folks could really levitate, trust me, scientists would be all over the what, the how and all that... I'll leave flying to my dream time. LOL..

I have a very different view of magic... different from yourself and different from these TV entertainers... it's more akin to what one would call prayer or perhaps wishes... I think those are the closest words to it. To me, magic isn't dark, bad or evil (nor is it light or good.. it's kinda like electricity... I can't see it but I can utilize it and it can be for good intentions - to see in the closet or for bad - to electrocute someone)... anymore than wishes are... it's the intent of the person that's what matters. But that's just my own opinion...

 

[janetupnorth]

I am only asking. NOT adding to the fire. I think this thread has been a good one to be honest and a true test.

Rebecca - I personally do believe there is real 'magic'. The ruler of this world Satan was/is an angel not human and God does not fully reveal in scriptures what all the powers and abilities of angels are. We do know there is spiritual warfare around us all the time! It also talks in scriptures about Pharaoh and others summoning "wise men and sorcerers"

All I know is that God warns us in scripture that draws us away from Christ and was he did on the cross and we are not to be involved in it. When humans get any power, they harden their hearts towards Christ and his mercy...we are naturally selfish.

Even Satan can disguise himself as a angel of light...such as dark magic and evil can be disguised as something good.

The more you read your Bible, the more you glean how to discern good and evil and God will guide your heart and mind if you stay focused on Him.

 

[janetupnorth]

...and I do believe that someday when we are in Heaven with Christ our bodies will be much different and we will be able to do things we cannot do here. Since the fall of Adam and Eve and sin, our bodies started to die...we have so much more mental and other capabilities that I personally believe aren't in use on earth but when we have a new "body" in heaven, will be...The mind of man cannot truly comprehend heavenly things and the true interaction between soul and body.

 

[janetupnorth]

...and I won't read Harry Potter, but fiction I have read that involves this topic is Frank Peretti - This Present Darkness, Piercing the Darkness and others...

 

[tx_deputyswife]

Curious - why is it when non-Christians want to voice their beliefs, or get irritated about Christians who want to avoid reading/watching media that goes against their beliefs, the words "free speech" come out like roaring cannons? Why are Christians not afforded the same "free speech" to allow them to discuss their beliefs, and their desires to refrain from bringing unwanted media into their lives?

It just seem slightly hypocritical to criticize Christians for not wanting to read certain books, or see certain movies, then in the same breath criticize the Bible.

Going back to the original discussion about "The Golden Compass"...ironically, there are masses of fans of the book series who are out-spoken about their disgust at the movie for what they claim is "watering down" the anti-Catholic themes found in the book. And, as a Catholic, I shouldn't be offended about this?

They are afforded their "free speech" to bash the movie for not being as anti-Catholic as the book, yet I should be denied mine to declare why I don't want my family to partake of this entertainment.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Again I feel I should bring up the point that nobody (save one person) has commented on. If someone says they are a christian and they say "don't read this book or see this movie", do you follow blindly??? If so, I (OPINION) think that is sad. It is sad that you will not try something just because someone says it is against THEIR beliefs. I believe someone mentioned earlier in this thread that not all christians have the same beliefs. So, again, I say try to read the book and see for yourself. If you don't want your kids to read it or see the movie, fine, your choice. BUT, make it YOUR choice. I just hate to see people follow a label!

 

[Chef Kearns]

Again I feel I should bring up the point that nobody (save one person) has commented on. If someone says they are a christian and they say "don't read this book or see this movie", do you follow blindly??? If so, I (OPINION) think that is sad. It is sad that you will not try something just because someone says it is against THEIR beliefs. I believe someone mentioned earlier in this thread that not all christians have the same beliefs. So, again, I say try to read the book and see for yourself. If you don't want your kids to read it or see the movie, fine, your choice. BUT, make it YOUR choice. I just hate to see people follow a label!

Part of these kinds of talks is information gathering. When someone says to you, "don't go to the Olive Garden on the highway I didn't like the waitstaff and the host was rude". That person is not in the wrong for sharing their experience with you. What you choose to do with the information is your business! You can choose not to eat there because you don't want the hassle. You may choose to go and see if it is really that bad. However, this is life. I try something, if I like it I share so you can all try it. If I don't like it, I share so you won't have to go through it. However, the choice is up to you! No one should be condemned for not choosing to read or watch something. They have evaluated the information and chosen that it is not for them. What difference does it make to you? (not being snotty, but really come on)

 

[lkprescott]

Curious - why is it when non-Christians want to voice their beliefs, or get irritated about Christians who want to avoid reading/watching media that goes against their beliefs, the words "free speech" come out like roaring cannons? Why are Christians not afforded the same "free speech" to allow them to discuss their beliefs, and their desires to refrain from bringing unwanted media into their lives?

It just seem slightly hypocritical to criticize Christians for not wanting to read certain books, or see certain movies, then in the same breath criticize the Bible.

Going back to the original discussion about "The Golden Compass"...ironically, there are masses of fans of the book series who are out-spoken about their disgust at the movie for what they claim is "watering down" the anti-Catholic themes found in the book. And, as a Catholic, I shouldn't be offended about this?

They are afforded their "free speech" to bash the movie for not being as anti-Catholic as the book, yet I should be denied mine to declare why I don't want my family to partake of this entertainment.

I can only speak for myself but I don't speak against things unless I've had the experience of them... or rather, that's what I strive to do (being an imperfect human). Most folks I know that do criticize the Bible do so from having come from a past that's involved studying, reading and being taught the Bible and it's teachings. Or from folks who have at least read it. That to me is a proper critique... someone read it and formed an opinion of it.

The hypocrisy would be if someone did NOT read the Bible and then go about trashing it.

I personally find it interesting to learn why some folks would ban certain things from their home. I try to do that very little though I will admit I do... I don't allow certain inane cartoons that make my brain numb and would make me rather have a root canal than watch them... but that's a voice of experiencing said cartoons. I see various and diverse experiences as character building. I'm not Christian but when my son was given a Veggie Tale tape, we watched it together... I have to say, the opening song was horribly ingrained in my head for 3 days... ugh, not a good thing either. It gives us a chance to learn about others and about ourselves. But that's just me... again, can only speak for me and how I run my house and raise my kids.

 

[cmdtrgd]

I understand your question and I hope my response isn't snotty either.When people blindly follow on little things it makes it easier to follow on big things. For example, I am amazed at how many American restaurants have kids menus of chicken nuggets, hot dogs and pizza. They eat this way because they don't know any different (on a general basis). In Europe kids are expected to eat what their parents eat - chicken carbonara, escargot (I won't ever eat this, though), stuff with artichokes. What does this mean? It means we are teaching our children not to try new things, not to make decisions for themselves. My 10 year old niece says she doesn't like garlic but LOVES everything that has garlic in it. When I visit and cook, I'm not allowed to tell her there is garlic in it. She doesn't know WHAT garlic tastes like because she never gave it a chance. It saddens me to see people let others make decisions for them. I see that as giving up your RIGHTS to free speech, free assembly, etc.That, and I enjoyed the series and didn't see any non-christian points.

 

[cmdtrgd]

Oh, and my main point...duh....is that we as adults should be showing our children through our ACTS that we look at something and decide whether it fits the lifestyle/beliefs/whatever that we subscribe to. It is amazing how much kids will pick up when you show them and explain your decision!

 

[caynreth]

and,again, I say, you are entitled to your opinion of the movie and/or book and entitled to express it but only AFTER you have seen/read said movie/book. Blindly bashing something just based on hearsay isn't cool.and,yes, I'm a non-christian. and yes, I have read the bible. In fact I took a class in college on the montheist faiths. so I feel entitled to praise the bits that are well written and criticize the bits that weren't so well written. I have to agree with earlier poster who said that you have to read the bible, like any book, in the context of the time in which it was written. A lot of the guidelines for living are no longer applicable to modern life. I think the stricture against homosexuality is one of those. In those biblical times, children were less likely to survive to adulthood so procreation was essential. Nowadays there are just too darn many people on this planet already. Procreation is really not something we need to be encouraging. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cmdtrgd]

and,again, I say, you are entitled to your opinion of the movie and/or book and entitled to express it but only AFTER you have seen/read said movie/book. Blindly bashing something just based on hearsay isn't cool.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[sailortena]

I have read the Bible, many times ... and what do you know ... that the Bible has sections in it that could be described as magic! Hmmm let me think of a couple ... Old Testament ... bushes that don't really burn, a staff that turns into a snake, the same staff that parts a sea so the people of Israel can escape Egypt .... New Testament .... people being risen from the dead, those who are lame, disabled, sickened who are suddenly cured ... turning water into wine ... turning two loaves of bread and fish into enough food to feed thousands of people .... that's magic, isn't it?The bible also features wars, murder, destruction, natural disasters, anything that makes a good book good reading, it has it in there.

 

[tx_deputyswife]

I can only speak for myself but I don't speak against things unless I've had the experience of them... or rather, that's what I strive to do (being an imperfect human). Most folks I know that do criticize the Bible do so from having come from a past that's involved studying, reading and being taught the Bible and it's teachings. Or from folks who have at least read it. That to me is a proper critique... someone read it and formed an opinion of it.

The hypocrisy would be if someone did NOT read the Bible and then go about trashing it.

This assumes that everyone speaking out hasn't read the books. I'm not saying any have or haven't, because I don't know. But some knowledgable people have, and have then voiced their concerns.

Do you have to personally try everything to determine whether it is right or wrong for your family? For instance, lets take all of the recent recalls on toys with lead paint (a stretch from the topic of books and movies, I know, but it's only to make a point), do you not take the word of a higher authority that lead is bad for us? Or do turn your family into lab rats to find out for yourself?

I whole-heartedly agree that we shouldn't move through life as sheep, blindly following the herd. But as humans with higher intelligence, we are blessed with the ability of learning through the mistakes and knowledge of others.

I personally find it interesting to learn why some folks would ban certain things from their home. I try to do that very little though I will admit I do... I don't allow certain inane cartoons that make my brain numb and would make me rather have a root canal than watch them... but that's a voice of experiencing said cartoons.

I think this may be a matter how something is approached. As a mother of two teens, and a pre-schooler, there are absolutely things that are banned in our house: drugs, trashy clothing, trashy talking, etc. But nothing is banned per se without reason or explanation.

ETA: I just wanted to add that my posts are just discussion, and I hope I don't offend you, or anyone else. It isn't my intention at all. But I do enjoy a respectful and spirited debate!

 

[janetupnorth]

Oh, and my main point...duh....is that we as adults should be showing our children through our ACTS that we look at something and decide whether it fits the lifestyle/beliefs/whatever that we subscribe to. It is amazing how much kids will pick up when you show them and explain your decision!

I agree with that! My kids sensor the TV faster than I can and will leave the room, cover their eyes/ears, etc. on many things!I also have a responsibility to shield them from some things I think they aren't old enough to decide on yet...

 

[lkprescott]

This assumes that everyone speaking out hasn't read the books. I'm not saying any have or haven't, because I don't know. But some knowledgable people have, and have then voiced their concerns.

Do you have to personally try everything to determine whether it is right or wrong for your family? For instance, lets take all of the recent recalls on toys with lead paint (a stretch from the topic of books and movies, I know, but it's only to make a point), do you not take the word of a higher authority that lead is bad for us? Or do turn your family into lab rats to find out for yourself?

I whole-heartedly agree that we shouldn't move through life as sheep, blindly following the herd. But as humans with higher intelligence, we are blessed with the ability of learning through the mistakes and knowledge of others.



I think this may be a matter how something is approached. As a mother of two teens, and a pre-schooler, there are absolutely things that are banned in our house: drugs, trashy clothing, trashy talking, etc. But nothing is banned per se without reason or explanation.

ETA: I just wanted to add that my posts are just discussion, and I hope I don't offend you, or anyone else. It isn't my intention at all. But I do enjoy a respectful and spirited debate!

As do I and no offense was taken by me... it actually takes quite a bit to offend me (tough shell but really I'm a mush on the inside LOL).. it's not my intent to offend either... but offer another view point perhaps... I like to believe this world is big enough for everyone though if I'm not careful this could spin off into an environmental debate! LOL..

I think, as I mentioned, when it comes to books I do have a soft spot, as a bibliophile... banning drugs? A no brainer... there have been enough studies to know the affects plus, it's illegal. The lead analogy was a bit of a stretch... as again, we know the affects and the use of lead in products, I believe though I could be wrong, is also banned by our government.

Time and again some folks in the world have tried to link bad behavior, suicide and even murder on books, tv, movies and music with only circumstantial evidence at best. Plus, sometimes in the same vein but at the other end of the spectrum some books that may trouble some can actually be a positive influence on another. Case in point, when I was a teenager I read Go Ask Alice... it's a book about a strung out girl on drugs... and kept me clean throughout my high school years. Now had someone banned that book from my life, who knows what would have happened? Of course, someone could say that I could have wanted to try drugs by reading that book (and if memory serves, it is on the ALA's list of protested books)... same book, different outcomes... what mattered most were the values my folks gave me. The strength of character I had from them and got to see in them as they lived their lives...

I guess what it boils down to is parents are their kids' first and most important teachers... and not just in words but by actions. No good telling a child not to do something while doing it! If you raise a child who is strong in the values you uphold, then what power really... would a book... have over that child?

That's an honest curiosity of mine. I have more fear over the influences that my kids' peers have over my kids with peer pressure than in what's in a book... which is why my son has no prohibitions on what he can read, nor do I force him to read anything he'd rather not.

Gotta run... lil Girl's cutting me out paper flowers (since all the real ones outside are dying and she can't go out and pick any) and needing help with a 'vase'...

 

[pckelly]

I have read the Bible, many times ... and what do you know ... that the Bible has sections in it that could be described as magic! Hmmm let me think of a couple ... Old Testament ... bushes that don't really burn, a staff that turns into a snake, the same staff that parts a sea so the people of Israel can escape Egypt .... New Testament .... people being risen from the dead, those who are lame, disabled, sickened who are suddenly cured ... turning water into wine ... turning two loaves of bread and fish into enough food to feed thousands of people .... that's magic, isn't it?

The bible also features wars, murder, destruction, natural disasters, anything that makes a good book good reading, it has it in there.

Dictionary says this of MAGIC:
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

There is NO deception in the Bible. Jesus didn't deceive people by healing them. God didn't deceive the Isrealites by splitting the Red Sea. The Bible is truth and every account that is throughout that book was real! Not deception, not magic, not anything but truth and revelation. This thread was about the movie Golden Compass and also about Harry Potter, not other history books or anything else. Those are the things this thread was originally about. Those books have magic and sorcery in them that ,once again, we are trying to say is contrary to anyone that lives wholeheartedly for Jesus Christ. If that is what you are seeing when you read the Bible...is magic?? Then I have to say I pray that God will remove the scales from your eyes so you can see His word for what it really is someday!! Be blessed!

 

[lkprescott]

Dictionary says this of MAGIC:
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

There is NO deception in the Bible. Jesus didn't deceive people by healing them. God didn't deceive the Isrealites by splitting the Red Sea. The Bible is truth and every account that is throughout that book was real! Not deception, not magic, not anything but truth and revelation. This thread was about the movie Golden Compass and also about Harry Potter, not other history books or anything else. Those are the things this thread was originally about. Those books have magic and sorcery in them that ,once again, we are trying to say is contrary to anyone that lives wholeheartedly for Jesus Christ. If that is what you are seeing when you read the Bible...is magic?? Then I have to say I pray that God will remove the scales from your eyes so you can see His word for what it really is someday!! Be blessed!

There is more than one definition of magic, that is but one.

mag·ic


noun
Definition:

1. conjuring tricks: conjuring tricks and illusions that make apparently impossible things seem to happen, usually performed as entertainment

2. inexplicable things: a special, mysterious, or inexplicable quality, talent, or skill

3. supposed supernatural power: a supposed supernatural power that makes impossible things happen or gives somebody control over the forces of nature. Magic is used in many cultures for healing, keeping away evil, seeking the truth, and for vengeful purposes.

4. practice of magic: the use of supposed supernatural power to make impossible things happen

From: http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861627713

I also consider wishes and the practice of wishing to be magic... like making a wish before blowing out candles... making a wish on a falling star... it's invoking the powers that be to bring the wisher something... an item, a cure, love, happiness... et al. That kind of magic would fall under the 2nd and 4th items when they come true. Not all magic is sleight of hand. I believe some folks call them miracles even.

 

[Leigh0725]

and,again, I say, you are entitled to your opinion of the movie and/or book and entitled to express it but only AFTER you have seen/read said movie/book. Blindly bashing something just based on hearsay isn't cool.

and,yes, I'm a non-christian. and yes, I have read the bible. In fact I took a class in college on the montheist faiths. so I feel entitled to praise the bits that are well written and criticize the bits that weren't so well written. I have to agree with earlier poster who said that you have to read the bible, like any book, in the context of the time in which it was written. A lot of the guidelines for living are no longer applicable to modern life.

I think the stricture against homosexuality is one of those. In those biblical times, children were less likely to survive to adulthood so procreation was essential. Nowadays there are just too darn many people on this planet already. Procreation is really not something we need to be encouraging. Just my 2 cents.

I have to agree with the bold statement above. There are so many terms and definitions that get changed as times changed and causes some of the interpretations to get lost due to translation. I just find it amusing when you get folks quoting the Bible and saying that the Bible is the word and what to follow. However, they're only willing to follow certain portions and not recognize the bad parts of the Bible. It mentions having slaves and how the woman's purpose is to bear children, etc... I guess this is why I see is more as a guideline. There are SO many contridictions in the Bible, that sometimes it can be hard to follow the word of God, if you're viewing the Bible as the word of God. Case in point:

#1: Step-by-step on the creation. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)

Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ' father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

 

[Leigh0725]

Dictionary says this of MAGIC:
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

There is NO deception in the Bible. Jesus didn't deceive people by healing them. God didn't deceive the Isrealites by splitting the Red Sea. The Bible is truth and every account that is throughout that book was real! Not deception, not magic, not anything but truth and revelation. This thread was about the movie Golden Compass and also about Harry Potter, not other history books or anything else. Those are the things this thread was originally about. Those books have magic and sorcery in them that ,once again, we are trying to say is contrary to anyone that lives wholeheartedly for Jesus Christ. If that is what you are seeing when you read the Bible...is magic?? Then I have to say I pray that God will remove the scales from your eyes so you can see His word for what it really is someday!! Be blessed!

How I see it, is that definition is how we define magic in the 21st century. Could be that magic was defined differently back then. Of course, all definition/interpretations are open for discussion, just wanted to bring this up.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Good reading?

I have read the Bible, many times ... and what do you know ... that the Bible has sections in it that could be described as magic! Hmmm let me think of a couple ... Old Testament ... bushes that don't really burn, a staff that turns into a snake, the same staff that parts a sea so the people of Israel can escape Egypt .... New Testament .... people being risen from the dead, those who are lame, disabled, sickened who are suddenly cured ... turning water into wine ... turning two loaves of bread and fish into enough food to feed thousands of people .... that's magic, isn't it?

The bible also features wars, murder, destruction, natural disasters, anything that makes a good book good reading, it has it in there.

Wars, murders, destruction, natural disasters and magic are not good reading in my opinion. Many times I read of such things in the news and it saddens me. I can only read so much because it is just a result of all the sin in this world and it grieves me. I can't wait for heaven!! To be in the presence of the Lord and to be free from this body of sin. Before I knew the Lord I loved movies and books about death, murder, destruction, serial killers, I was facinated with evil things. Now I think on things that are better for me.
Now as far as the times you mentioned "magic" in the bible, that is not the same thing. The power of God and his ability to do miracles is not magic. The Almighty Creator of the Universe has the ability to do anything he pleases, such as parting the Red Sea, healing people, restoring limbs, multiplying food, bringing the dead to life, plagues, etc...
Then of course there are signs and wonders that Satan can do, because God allows it, that you might consider magic. Such as magicians, sorcerers, false prophets, calling on the power of false gods (satan and demons) to make things happen. It's the source of power that matters. If I pray for something to happen and it does. That is not magic, it's the power of my God and Savior to help me and answer me.

Debbie

 

[ChefBeckyD]

and,again, I say, you are entitled to your opinion of the movie and/or book and entitled to express it but only AFTER you have seen/read said movie/book. Blindly bashing something just based on hearsay isn't cool.

and,yes, I'm a non-christian. and yes, I have read the bible. In fact I took a class in college on the montheist faiths. so I feel entitled to praise the bits that are well written and criticize the bits that weren't so well written. I have to agree with earlier poster who said that you have to read the bible, like any book, in the context of the time in which it was written. A lot of the guidelines for living are no longer applicable to modern life.

I'm sorry - but that phrase made me giggle. I spent 4 years getting a Bachelor's Degree in Bible (google the word hermeneutics), and when you say you feel you can speak of what is and isn't well written based on one religion class......well, that would be like me saying one class on World religions makes me an expert on the Torah, or the Koran.....(I did take a class - and I would in no way presume to know what parts are well written vs. not well written! )

This is going to be long - but this is a passage of Scripture that I believe sums up the differences in this debate.

II Timothy 3:1-17,and II Timothy 4:2-5 (From the New Living Translation - which, by the way, is not translated from the King James Version)

You should also know this Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control; they will be cruel and have no interest in what is good. They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. They will act as if they are religious, but will reject the power that could make them godly.................

But you know what I teach...and how I live and what my purpose in life is. You know my faith, and how long I have suffered, You know my love and my patient endurance........Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be suffer persecution. But evil people and imposters will flourish. They will go on deceiving others, and they themselves will be deceived.
But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught.....You have been taught th holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God, and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong with our lives. It straightens us out, and teaches us to do what is right. It is God's way of preparing us in every way, fully equipped for every good thing God wants us to do.

Preach the word of God. Be persistent, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching. For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to right teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever they want to hear. They will reject the Truth and follow strange myths.
But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don't be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at bringing others to Christ. Complete the ministry God has given you.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

God is not forgetful!

I have to agree with the bold statement above. There are so many terms and definitions that get changed as times changed and causes some of the interpretations to get lost due to translation. I just find it amusing when you get folks quoting the Bible and saying that the Bible is the word and what to follow. However, they're only willing to follow certain portions and not recognize the bad parts of the Bible. It mentions having slaves and how the woman's purpose is to bear children, etc... I guess this is why I see is more as a guideline. There are SO many contridictions in the Bible, that sometimes it can be hard to follow the word of God, if you're viewing the Bible as the word of God. Case in point:

#1: Step-by-step on the creation. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)
"God is love." (1 John 4:16)

Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ' father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

First and foremost, I serve a Mighty, all knowing, all seeing, ever present Holy God who does not forget. God does everything clearly and step by step because in reality mankind is just as sheep and sheep are stupid. PERIOD!
All mankind thinks he knows so much and the bible says that in the end this way of thinking leads to death and eternity without God.
Now you can't take scripture out of context. I am so sorry you feel that reading the bible a few times makes you an expert. It does not. IN fact you could read God's word for hundreds of years and still not get all the richness and treasure stored in its pages. Scripture is pretty clear and you must not have an understanding that OLD Testament scriptures were for the Jews. Those laws of washing, what to wear, and specific commands God gave was for the Jews. Not for us. We can see those things and learn by example of some of the things God said to the Jews but we can't take it all to heart for our lives now. Stick to the New Testament. It will show you the way to eternal life.
6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5 For each will have to bear his own load.

Ok let's read the WHOLE Context here ok. You mentioned in verse 2 that we must bear one another's burdens right? That is true. We must help those who are weak and struggle with sin. Now keep reading!!! It says if we keep thinking ourselves something, comparing ourselves to one another we will decieve ourselves. We must never be prideful trying to carry all our burdens on our own for fear of ridicule. We must look at our own selves (test our own work) and not our neighbors burdens and sins trying to compare who is better. Keep our eyes focused on Christ and do not care for the praises of men because we all must stand before Christ one day alone (to carry our own burden).
So there is no contradiction. There never is. But satan wants you to think there is, so he can keep you distracted from the Majesty and Beauty of Christ and the sacrifice he did on the cross for sinners.

And this is long enough without me having to explain the contradiction which you mentioned. By the way, it's not a contradiction. Please read some info from the link below.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v18/i4/genesis.asp

Debbie

 

[jrstephens]

Oh ladies you all have so wonderfully covered the things that I believe - the Christian posts have!

The Bible is the inspired word of God, NO mistakes and everything still applies today as it did then. The 10 Commandments have not changed. What is sin and what is not sin have not changed. Now that Jesus gave his life for our sins and salvation there is no need for a sacrifical lamb anymore b/c He is it.

The Bible tells us that we will be questioned and ridiculed by our faith but we are to remain strong. I share my faith b/c it is my fear that someone will die without Jesus and spend eternity in hell. I want that for NO ONE!

As far as someone saying Christains all have different beliefs, we may some have differences in our general views of some things but we do not differ in our core basis, that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and that no man shall get to the Father except by believing on the Lord Jesus.

The Bible is God's Holy word and it is to be followed with each and every verse and each and every letter. Not take one verse here and one verse there and put them together to do as we want.

As far as us Christians not sharing our beliefs with non-believers, if we do not share our beliefs with others we are not following the Great Commission we were givien "All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world” (Mt. 28:18-20). If we do not share our faith with others then we are disobeying one of the most important things that our Jesus told us to do. I personally would rather offend others by standing steady and strong in my beliefs, than take the chance that someone I could have reached was not reached b/c I was scared of what other might say.

I share my faith out of love not hate. I share my faith b/c I care about the lives and futures of others, no matter who they are, no matter where they are and no matter the lifestyle they are currently in.

We just finished a study of Revelation in our Sunday School class. This study has made me more than ever want to see everyone I know and don't know saved by Jesus b/c I want no one to have to experience the horrors that await them by not believing.

I do not belive in magic. I believe in the work of the Holy Spirit but I do not believe that can be called magic, not magic as we see it anyway. I believe in miracles, I believe in angels, I believe that God can do anything He wants to do, but it is not magical it is spiritual.

 

[sfdavis918]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread. There are over a thousand "views" but only 85 "replies". I think it's great that you exercise your voice, no matter what side you fall on.

I heard something today that made me immediately think of this thread. "He who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." (Dave Ramsey's Grandmother.) Thank you to all who are trying to educate and not "bully" into an opinion.

 

[janetupnorth]

There are over a thousand "views" but only 85 "replies". I think it's great that you exercise your voice, no matter what side you fall on.

I just came to read again because I noticed that.

Good scripture Becky, I personally agree.

 

[caynreth]

I'm sorry - but that phrase made me giggle. I spent 4 years getting a Bachelor's Degree in Bible (google the word hermeneutics), and when you say you feel you can speak of what is and isn't well written based on one religion class......well, that would be like me saying one class on World religions makes me an expert on the Torah, or the Koran.....(I did take a class - and I would in no way presume to know what parts are well written vs. not well written! )

I never said it made me an expert, I said having read it entitles me to an opinion. Just as with any book. Had I NOT read it, you could tell me to sit down and shut up until I had. That was my point.

 

[crystalscookingnow]

I, too, want to say thank you to each of the ladies that have so wonderfully shared the Christian belief that is in my heart. I know that God loves me & that I am to follow his words & walk in his light.

Thank you to the original poster who shared the information about this movie with. I am not a fan of Harry Potter nor have I read any books or seen the movie(s??). I choose not to watch these movies or read these books based on what I believe.

I also think that taking one verse from any book - Bible or otherwise - is dangerous. Taking anything out of context to fit your own needs is easy to do but you miss the point. In order to get 'the whole story', you need to read the entire section to really understand what's being said & talked about.

 

[lkprescott]

I want to add my thanks as well. Without this thread I wouldn't have come to meet others who are similar to myself. I know that wasn't the intention of the OP... but it's still appreciated.

 

[Leigh0725]

....

The Bible is God's Holy word and it is to be followed with each and every verse and each and every letter. Not take one verse here and one verse there and put them together to do as we want.

I was going to bite my tongue on this, but I just had to ask....

If above is what you believe in, then do you allow your husband to rule over you? Do you stay silent in church? For example, take a look at first Corinthians, chapter 14, verse 33 through 35:

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

I understand that there is a need to keep a lot of what the Bible does reflect your actions, however, in today's society, I find it hard that folks say they follow every word of the Bible to a tee. Again, I am mainly wanting to spark conversation and try to understand your viewpoint.

 

[Shawnna]

Okay, I have never figured out how to quote someone else's text, so bear with me.

As far as women being silent in church and husbands ruling over them...We had this discussion in our ladies study group. The pastor's wife who studies constantly told us that from her reading she understands that in "Bible" time, when there was preaching that the women would begin to question out loud...across the room, in groups, etc...what the speaker meant. Services became out of hand...you know how we women can be...and the behavior was disgraceful. As for men ruling over women. The Bible says that the husband is the head of the household. Does that mean that the husband is the dicatator of the household? NO! God says that we are all created equal, but someone has to be in charge. A husband and wife should discuss things, study them out and make an informed decision. But, the husband is responsible for his household. He must answer to God for his wife and children. So, his final decision is the way it will be. Will he always be right...not if he hasn't spent time in prayer and studied, and looked at each situation from all sides. Does this scripture mean husbands should abuse their wives? NO! Once again, he must answer to God for his treatment of his family. He is responsible for the spiritual welfare of his family. He must live a good example in front of them. If he is unsaved and his wife and children are saved, they still must be in submission to him. Because God says so. But, he also promised that through her, that unsaved loved one would be saved. He promises that if we do all that we are suppose to do, he will save our family. It may be on their death bed after they have done something horrible, but he never goes back on a promise.

Back further in the thread someone talked about eating pork and shell fish. Shell fish contains minerals that if over-eaten can harm our bodies. And, yes at one time the jews were not suppose to eat pork...cloven hooves. However, there is a passage...and I don't have my Bible handy, so maybe someone can find the exact scripture...in which a man of God is on a rooftop. A blanket from Heaven comes down with all kinds of meat...including pork...and he refuses the food God has provided because it is unclean. God tells him that nothing he created is unclean. If God was feeding this man pork, then I think we can eat it too.

The Bible is still as true today as it was when it was written. It was written by God with men's hands. He inspired every word.

The biggest thing I see in this thread...and in the world...is that everyone keeps saying "religion does this, or religion does that". As a Christian I do not stand on religion. I stand on Jesus. I am a follower of Christ...hence the name Christian. Religion is bad. Everyone has religion...the pharasees had religion. They stood on the law, but they were so caught up in the law they forgot what they were sent here to do. Worship God and tell everyone they knew about him. All we ever hear is how bad Christians are because they are intolerant, they discriminate, etc. All over the US people can erect monuments to other "religions", but we can't put up a nativity scene because it is intolerant of other people's beliefs. Our children are constantly being told they can't wear Christian clothing, or Pro-life clothing, or clothing that denies homosexuality. But people can wear pro-choice or shirts to support abortion, they can wear a shirt declaring how great it is to be a homosexual, and even clothes that condemn the Christian faith. Now, who is intolerant. If a preacher says that homosexuality is a sin it is considered hate speech. As a Christian person I do not condemn the PERSON in sin...whatever sin it is, they are all the same in God's eyes...I condemn the sin. Christian people do not go around blowing up people and buildings in the name of Christ.

After saying all of that I must say that not everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian. "The Church" is slandered and condemned because of the actions of people. Jesus says we will know them by their fruits...good or bad. I know people who will tell you they are a Christian all day long. They talk it up good. But, their actions say otherwise. The Bible says that "not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter in". But, God does not want anyone to perish.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, when the angels came to take Lot away, the men of the village tried to break down the door and lay with them. It says that in the last days it will be like in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. Folks we are there today. Every proficy has been fulfilled except for the 2nd returning of Jesus Christ. We better be ready.

 

[Shawnna]

Oh yes, and I do believe in magic. Not what we see as magic...magicians on tv, card tricks, etc. Magic is the supernatural. God works supernaturally. He heals people, he blesses people, he is the answer to our every problem. But, Satan also has magic and it is supernatural. We have to be able to tell which is which. That is why God warned about going to fortune tellers and conjuring up the dead. Everything that God has, Satan has a counterfit of. I believe that Satan uses his "magic" on all of us...or at least he tries to. When the anti-christ comes, he will be able to perform miracles...healing, turning water to wine, etc. And God says that we must watch so that we aren't fooled and lose our way.

 

[micocina]

Thank You...

If you are a Christian please check out this link and pass it on to everyone you know. There are more people in this world that believe in God than don't. If we all pass this on, maybe we can keep this jerk from making a profit off this movie!!!


Urban Legends Reference Pages: The Golden Compass

Jennifer for the heads up. I really appreciate it

 

[pckelly]

Okay, I have never figured out how to quote someone else's text, so bear with me.

As far as women being silent in church and husbands ruling over them...We had this discussion in our ladies study group. The pastor's wife who studies constantly told us that from her reading she understands that in "Bible" time, when there was preaching that the women would begin to question out loud...across the room, in groups, etc...what the speaker meant. Services became out of hand...you know how we women can be...and the behavior was disgraceful. As for men ruling over women. The Bible says that the husband is the head of the household. Does that mean that the husband is the dicatator of the household? NO! God says that we are all created equal, but someone has to be in charge. A husband and wife should discuss things, study them out and make an informed decision. But, the husband is responsible for his household. He must answer to God for his wife and children. So, his final decision is the way it will be. Will he always be right...not if he hasn't spent time in prayer and studied, and looked at each situation from all sides. Does this scripture mean husbands should abuse their wives? NO! Once again, he must answer to God for his treatment of his family. He is responsible for the spiritual welfare of his family. He must live a good example in front of them. If he is unsaved and his wife and children are saved, they still must be in submission to him. Because God says so. But, he also promised that through her, that unsaved loved one would be saved. He promises that if we do all that we are suppose to do, he will save our family. It may be on their death bed after they have done something horrible, but he never goes back on a promise.

Back further in the thread someone talked about eating pork and shell fish. Shell fish contains minerals that if over-eaten can harm our bodies. And, yes at one time the jews were not suppose to eat pork...cloven hooves. However, there is a passage...and I don't have my Bible handy, so maybe someone can find the exact scripture...in which a man of God is on a rooftop. A blanket from Heaven comes down with all kinds of meat...including pork...and he refuses the food God has provided because it is unclean. God tells him that nothing he created is unclean. If God was feeding this man pork, then I think we can eat it too.

The Bible is still as true today as it was when it was written. It was written by God with men's hands. He inspired every word.

The biggest thing I see in this thread...and in the world...is that everyone keeps saying "religion does this, or religion does that". As a Christian I do not stand on religion. I stand on Jesus. I am a follower of Christ...hence the name Christian. Religion is bad. Everyone has religion...the pharasees had religion. They stood on the law, but they were so caught up in the law they forgot what they were sent here to do. Worship God and tell everyone they knew about him. All we ever hear is how bad Christians are because they are intolerant, they discriminate, etc. All over the US people can erect monuments to other "religions", but we can't put up a nativity scene because it is intolerant of other people's beliefs. Our children are constantly being told they can't wear Christian clothing, or Pro-life clothing, or clothing that denies homosexuality. But people can wear pro-choice or shirts to support abortion, they can wear a shirt declaring how great it is to be a homosexual, and even clothes that condemn the Christian faith. Now, who is intolerant. If a preacher says that homosexuality is a sin it is considered hate speech. As a Christian person I do not condemn the PERSON in sin...whatever sin it is, they are all the same in God's eyes...I condemn the sin. Christian people do not go around blowing up people and buildings in the name of Christ.

After saying all of that I must say that not everyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian. "The Church" is slandered and condemned because of the actions of people. Jesus says we will know them by their fruits...good or bad. I know people who will tell you they are a Christian all day long. They talk it up good. But, their actions say otherwise. The Bible says that "not everyone who says Lord, Lord shall enter in". But, God does not want anyone to perish.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, when the angels came to take Lot away, the men of the village tried to break down the door and lay with them. It says that in the last days it will be like in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah. Folks we are there today. Every proficy has been fulfilled except for the 2nd returning of Jesus Christ. We better be ready.

Thankyou for speaking those words!

 

[MissChef]

I'm proud of you, my fellow Christian cheffers! :love: Us Christians need to speak up! I agree with all of you and my heart swells with pride for the Christians that stand up for God and His Word!! And His Word is supposed to be made to be our "blue print" or "hand book" for life! Also, someone said the bible was just wrote by men, well my husband use to believe this too and then he started coming to church and doing as the bible says and titheing and following the example our pastor teaches us which is living by the Word of God, the bible, and our lives have dramatically changed and all Glory be to God! He now knows that he was wrong! The bible was written while the people were filled with The Holy Spirit, so that means it was written by God then!

I'm so glad we did not just read and not stay silent! God bless you all, I know you will hear "job well done, my good and faithful servant!"
And back to the original subject... thanks Jennifer.... I have forwarded to all my friends, family and church!
Nothing makes me more upset then people trying to influence my children's minds with trash, when I'm trying to raise mighty spirit filled giants for God!:love:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but most of the time Christians get quiet and don't stand up for their beliefs and I'm thankful that you did!

 

[jrstephens]

I was going to bite my tongue on this, but I just had to ask....

If above is what you believe in, then do you allow your husband to rule over you? Do you stay silent in church? For example, take a look at first Corinthians, chapter 14, verse 33 through 35:

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

I understand that there is a need to keep a lot of what the Bible does reflect your actions, however, in today's society, I find it hard that folks say they follow every word of the Bible to a tee. Again, I am mainly wanting to spark conversation and try to understand your viewpoint.

The leardes of our church (deacons) are all men. If I have an opinin I will go to them in private and tell my opinion. In an open busines meeting, yes, I will say something if I feel lead to. But no, I do not speak out to the point of causing problems.

As far as my home, me and my husband discuss things, seek God's guidance and then make our decisions. So, I would say yes I do submit to him. I do not think submission means the bad way that peopel make it seem like you are a wall flower with no opions. I also know that Bible tells us the the man is to be the leader of the household and that leader means a biblical Christian leader. And if he is a Biblical Christian leader then things are right between him and the Lord and therefore makes for an easy marriage. Jesus treats believers as the "Bride of the church." What better way to have a husband treat you than the way Jesus would treat His church? There is not a lot of need for submission when things are done under God's direction.

And when I said "it is to be followed," I did not mean that there are times that I do not fail and not follow it at all times. None of us do that no matter what we say b/c it is not possible. For that to be possible we would have to be perfect and no one but Jesus is perfect.

Shawna, I love you answer and the way you put things below!

 

[jasonmva]

I'm proud of you, my fellow Christian cheffers! :love: Us Christians need to speak up! I agree with all of you and my heart swells with pride for the Christians that stand up for God and His Word!! And His Word is supposed to be made to be our "blue print" or "hand book" for life! Also, someone said the bible was just wrote by a man, well my husband use to believe this too and then he started coming to church and doing as the bible says and titheing and following the example our pastor teaches us and our lives have dramatically changed and all Glory be to God! He now knows that he was wrong! The bible was written while the people were filled with The Holy Spirit, so that means it was written by God then!
I'm so glad we did not just read and not stay silent! God bless you all, I know you will hear "job well done, my good and faithful servant!"And back to the original subject... thanks Jennifer.... I have forwarded to all my friends, family and church!
Nothing makes me more upset then people trying to influence my children's minds with trash, when I'm trying to raise mighty spirit filled warriors, for God!:love:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but most of the time Christians get quiet and don't stand up for their beliefs and I'm thankful that you did!

So Cathy are you saying that because I do not agree that me being gay is a sin and because I spoke up for my beliefs that God will not say the same thing to me? I'm sorry but I firmly believe that while the Bible may be the word of God, it was not written by him or anyone during his time, they are stories that aide us in learning lessons. There have been many translations of the Bible and we all know how things get lost in translation. It is like a game of telephone.

As for the comments about Christians getting a bad rap for things, it is not so much that they get a bad rap, but whenever they have disagreements with others, the first thing a majority, not all, Christians do is start taking out their bibles and quote scripture like it is the law of the land. The Bible is a good guide, but there is no way that what is in the bible can be applied to today's day and age with the words that are written. I am sure someone is
working on yet another translation as we speak.

So, I can also play the game of quoting:

Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
And most importantly, from all of my years in religion education classes, I KNOW that God made me in His own image. Therefore, God is the one that chose me to be gay. That is probably because he knew I would be a fighter for equal rights.