Movie Warning for All You Christians Out There!!!

[jasonmva]

You are enterpreting Becky's word in a way she did not intend them to be. She does not mean they tell each person something different on how they should live, she is meaning that at times in our lives different parts of the Bible will speak more and mean more to us than in other times. I know this from personal experience. When I am going through a personal tragedy or something that is worrying me or a decision that needs to be made in my life a certain passage of scripture will mean more to me at that point. For example, If I am going through loosing a loved one scriptures that talk about seeing them again in Heaven if they are a Christian will mean more to me at that time than a scripture that tells me I should tithe to God.

But now I need to ask...how is it that you knew exactly what Becky was meaning without being her? This is one thing that we can go on forever about. You viewed her writing one way and I viewed it another, yet you agsin come at me telling me I am wrong about what I read and what it means to me. So you are still saying that you are right and no matter what I say to make my point, I will always be wrong. I think that is a sin also, isn't it because according to you, only God knows what is right and wrong. Are you trying to play God?

 

[jrstephens]

But now I need to ask...how is it that you knew exactly what Becky was meaning without being her? This is one thing that we can go on forever about. You viewed her writing one way and I viewed it another, yet you agsin come at me telling me I am wrong about what I read and what it means to me. So you are still saying that you are right and no matter what I say to make my point, I will always be wrong. I think that is a sin also, isn't it because according to you, only God knows what is right and wrong. Are you trying to play God?

No I am not trying to play God. I know what she meant b/c that is what I believe as well and know how scripture speaks to me. And I know from your previous post that you were trying to prove how something can be interpreted in different by different people. So, I cansay I was speaking from the point of having read both of your beliefs on this thread and knowing where each of you stood on this argument.

 

[jasonmva]

No I am not trying to play God. I know what she meant b/c that is what I believe as well and know how scripture speaks to me. And I know from your previous post that you were trying to prove how something can be interpreted in different by different people. So, I cansay I was speaking from the point of having read both of your beliefs on this thread and knowing where each of you stood on this argument.

I also believed what she said, but I took it in the way I read it, just like you did. The same thing can have different meaning to people, do you not agree with that?

 

[jrstephens]

I also believed what she said, but I took it in the way I read it, just like you did. The same thing can have different meaning to people, do you not agree with that?

I do agree with "the same thing can have different meaning to people," can you believe I agreed with you on something?

BUT I do not agree with you that those that do not believe homesexual is Biblical is interpreting the scriptures wrong and you are interpeting them right that it is Biblical.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

What?

But now I need to ask...how is it that you knew exactly what Becky was meaning without being her? This is one thing that we can go on forever about. You viewed her writing one way and I viewed it another, yet you agsin come at me telling me I am wrong about what I read and what it means to me. So you are still saying that you are right and no matter what I say to make my point, I will always be wrong. I think that is a sin also, isn't it because according to you, only God knows what is right and wrong. Are you trying to play God?

So are you saying we have to agree with you? Are you saying we have to stifle our beliefs because they might offend you or come against what you perceive to be right?
Yes Jason you will always be wrong in the sense that we believe homosexuality is a sin, it is not what God intends for mankind. You cannot change that. Just as we cannot change your mind about it, but we can voice our opinions just as you do. Is that wrong? In order for there to be an absolute truth, there must be a right way and a wrong one. There is no neutral stance on these issues.
We know what is right and what is wrong with the help of God and his Word. She is not trying to play God but she is quoting his words to give an example of how we should believe and live.

Debbie

 

[jasonmva]

So are you saying we have to agree with you? Are you saying we have to stifle our beliefs because they might offend you or come against what you perceive to be right?
Yes Jason you will always be wrong in the sense that we believe homosexuality is a sin, it is not what God intends for mankind. You cannot change that. Just as we cannot change your mind about it, but we can voice our opinions just as you do. Is that wrong? In order for there to be an absolute truth, there must be a right way and a wrong one. There is no neutral stance on these issues.
We know what is right and what is wrong with the help of God and his Word. She is not trying to play God but she is quoting his words to give an example of how we should believe and live.

Debbie

Debbie - I am sorry if you took that as I am trying to force you to agree with me, that was not what I have been trying to do all along. When it comes to the Bible I believe their is no right or wrong, but it is how the person reading the words interprets them.

I have never said that your interpretation of homosexuality in the bible was wrong either. And I understand that you can be confident in your statement that homosexuality is not what God intended for mankind, because that is what you have learned and what you feel the bible is telling you. I feel it is speaking to me differently and that is something that we cannot deny.

For you to say though that in order to have an absolute truth that there is one right and one wrong answer is also, I am assuming, something that is in your belief system. However, my belief is there are some of those unexplained mysteries of the world that do not have a definite right or wrong answer, it is up to the individual. Is that saying the person does not have or accept God, to me no but some may disagree.

From the beginning I have always just presented another view, maybe something to get some people thinking. I have not been forcing any of my views on anyone as some others in the thread have.

 

[lkprescott]

The Blind Man and the ElephantIt was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!"The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!"The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!"The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain," quoth her;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!"The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!"The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!MoralSo oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!-John Godfrey Saxe

 

[DebbieSAChef]

RelativismThis type of story embraces relativism. Although there are many different kinds of relativism, they all have two features in common.
1. They all assert that one thing (e.g. moral values, beauty, knowledge, taste, or meaning) is relative to some particular framework or standpoint (e.g. the individual subject, a culture, an era, a language, or a conceptual scheme).
2. They all deny that any standpoint is uniquely privileged over all others.

Many religious relativists like to recite a poem, ''The Blind Men and the Elephant: A Hindoo Fable,'' by John Godfrey Saxe. The poem describes how six blind men all approached an elephant from different sides. Each one touched a part of the elephant -- its side, its tusk, its trunk, its leg, its ear, and its tail. Then each one described the elephant by what their limited senses told them: a wall, a spear, a snake, a tree, a fan, and a rope. The poem notes, ''Though each was partly in the right...all were in the wrong.'' Saxe concludes:
So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

What relativists fail to realize is that there is one person involved with the story who claims to know the truth: the storyteller! The storyteller claims to truly understand reality, what the elephant (or theological truth) is really like. The story merely reaffirms the need to get our understanding of theology and God right. It certainly does not mean that we should embrace religious relativism.

I agree we as Christians must never fall into theological disputes where it leads to legalism and splitting hairs that leads to division. But only among true Christians and true christianity. I have brothers and sisters who believe differently than me on many issues regarding the bible. But I do not have brothers and sisters who embrace heresy and false doctrines.

Debbie

 

[Chef Kearns]

You go on, girl!! Yeah Debbie. You are a true champion for Christ.

Disclaimer: the above message was intended only for DebbieSAChef. If you have read the above message and were offended please read the first sentence of the disclaimer. Thank you for playing!

 

[DebbieSAChef]

There must be a right and wrong

Debbie - I am sorry if you took that as I am trying to force you to agree with me, that was not what I have been trying to do all along. When it comes to the Bible I believe their is no right or wrong, but it is how the person reading the words interprets them.

I have never said that your interpretation of homosexuality in the bible was wrong either. And I understand that you can be confident in your statement that homosexuality is not what God intended for mankind, because that is what you have learned and what you feel the bible is telling you. I feel it is speaking to me differently and that is something that we cannot deny.

For you to say though that in order to have an absolute truth that there is one right and one wrong answer is also, I am assuming, something that is in your belief system. However, my belief is there are some of those unexplained mysteries of the world that do not have a definite right or wrong answer, it is up to the individual. Is that saying the person does not have or accept God, to me no but some may disagree.

From the beginning I have always just presented another view, maybe something to get some people thinking. I have not been forcing any of my views on anyone as some others in the thread have.

I don't understand how you can suggest there is no right and there is no wrong. I am not picking a fight here Jason but how can you suggest that if I want to say that 2 + 2 = 4 but someone else says 2 + 2 = 5, no one is wrong because they are interpreting it the way they want to.
You might think that example is silly but is it really?
Relativism tells us that no one is wrong, no one is better in their thinking. We are all equal, no one thing is right!
But how can you say that if you think you are right? You must think your lifestyle is right or you wouldn't live it right? So how can I be right also if I think your lifestyle is not what God intended?
I believe in absolute truth. Only one way, and that is the way it has to be. I once saw Larry King interviewing all these people from different religions and he asked one of them "How can you say that everyone's religion is right?" "How can that be?"
The person's answer was something like this "Well Jesus is right for me, but it might not be right for someone else."
That makes no sense, even to Larry King who is a non believer. How can you say that all roads lead to heaven when God did not say that.
Paul said if anyone preaches another gospel (not the gospel of Jesus) let him be accursed. Obviously there are false preachers, false prophets and false doctrines that will not lead us to eternal life and to be with the one true God. That is a scary thought for those who think they are ok.
What if.... What if they are wrong? If I am wrong I have lived my life according to God's laws and trying to love my neighbor and serve God. If those who deny Christ are wrong, they will suffer in hell forever. Which is worst???

Debbie

 

[jasonmva]

I don't understand how you can suggest there is no right and there is no wrong. I am not picking a fight here Jason but how can you suggest that if I want to say that 2 + 2 = 4 but someone else says 2 + 2 = 5, no one is wrong because they are interpreting it the way they want to.
You might think that example is silly but is it really?
Relativism tells us that no one is wrong, no one is better in their thinking. We are all equal, no one thing is right!
But how can you say that if you think you are right? You must think your lifestyle is right or you wouldn't live it right? So how can I be right also if I think your lifestyle is not what God intended?
I believe in absolute truth. Only one way, and that is the way it has to be. I once saw Larry King interviewing all these people from different religions and he asked one of them "How can you say that everyone's religion is right?" "How can that be?"
The person's answer was something like this "Well Jesus is right for me, but it might not be right for someone else."
That makes no sense, even to Larry King who is a non believer. How can you say that all roads lead to heaven when God did not say that.
Paul said if anyone preaches another gospel (not the gospel of Jesus) let him be accursed. Obviously there are false preachers, false prophets and false doctrines that will not lead us to eternal life and to be with the one true God. That is a scary thought for those who think they are ok.
What if.... What if they are wrong? If I am wrong I have lived my life according to God's laws and trying to love my neighbor and serve God. If those who deny Christ are wrong, they will suffer in hell forever. Which is worst???

Debbie

I will start by saying that I can see your point when it comes to the little math problem you presented. So yes, there are some things that there would be an absolute truth on. I give you that. And this is also not to pick a fight, but ask questions to better understand. I have never, at any point, said that I am 100% right or wrong, just like I have not told anyone else they are 100% right or wrong. We are all following our own beliefs.

And if I am reading your response correctly (correct me if this is wrong) then you are saying that no matter what the issue, there is only one right and one wrong. Do you believe that there is only one way to get an absolute truth or can people have different solutions but get the same outcome? You can add 2+2 to get 4 and I could use 5-1 to get 4. We are both right in the end, but our way to the solution is different. By posing this question, I am merely asking that if we both have our relationships with God, regardless of how each of us choose to have those relationships, will we both not be on a road to heaven? Take away for a moment our whole discussions on the homosexuality issue. You are Christian and I am Catholic. Now, keep in mind I am not a theology major and I admit that I have not really studied religion, but I am sure there are differences in the way a Christian and a Catholic would have a solution to the absolute truth but both accomplish the same goal, getting to heaven.

Your belief is that you must first be saved by Christ in order to enter Heaven. The way you may have been saved and the way I have been saved could be 2 totally different ways, yet we both get to heaven. So if God thinks we are both right in the end, what leads one to say their way is the only way to get saved?

I think what no one in this discussion understands about me is that I am a religious person. I speak to God, I look to God for guidance. But my belief is going to be different than yours, which we are all entitled to have, but the feeling from a lot of the comments made is that the only way I can truly get to heaven is if I (1) change my lifestyle from gay to straight (fyi-won't happen because I am comfortable with myself and my homosexuality) and (2) follow every single thing in the Bible and repent when I am "mislead". For me, having my relationship with God is what is right for me and God alone knows that, not anyone else. Could I be better in my life, of course, but so can everyone else.

None of us were around at the time of Christ. Your teachings have made you a believer that everything in the bible was written by God. I am the type of person that likes to stand back and look at things another way to only better myself and my beliefs. Now I know you will think then that I disobey God by doing that, and that is your right. But, only God can tell me if I am truly doing something wrong, not another person.

 

[jasonmva]

I do agree with "the same thing can have different meaning to people," can you believe I agreed with you on something?

BUT I do not agree with you that those that do not believe homesexual is Biblical is interpreting the scriptures wrong and you are interpeting them right that it is Biblical.

See, we can at least agree on one thing. It's a starting point

And I respect your disagreement.

 

[jrstephens]

Your belief is that you must first be saved by Christ in order to enter Heaven. The way you may have been saved and the way I have been saved could be 2 totally different ways, yet we both get to heaven. So if God thinks we are both right in the end, what leads one to say their way is the only way to get saved?

There is NOT two different ways to be saved. There can be different experiences that lead you to finding God as your one true Savior but there is only ONE way to Salvation. By "experiences" I mean if you have not sought God then a situation could get you into church or into His word to seek him things like that. I am not saying two different WAYS of salvation. Trying to be clear with no other interpretations from my word, HA! And that is believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived on Earth as fully man fully God, lived a sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, and rose again 3 days later.

I refer to John 14 6 again to say that there is ONLY ONE way to be saved.

I guess our starting point just got threw out the window! I do appreciate that we seem to be having a good discussion but also staying friendly at the same time with our smilies!

 

[Shawnna]

wow...a lot has been posted since last night. It took me awhile to read through. I think we are going to have to leave it...because we will not be changing anyone's mind about right and wrong.

In today's society nothing seems to be right or wrong. Everyone wants to be careful not to hurt someones feelings...even in the church world. So many preachers have stopped preaching about sin because they want people to come to church. It is sad that even the church has become a numbers game. I am so proud of my preacher. He stands up for what is right. He not only preaches God's word, but he lives it as well. People all over our county talk about that fact. So many people think that if they go to church on Sunday morning...or Saturday if that is your Sabbath...they are going to Heaven. But, we have to not only be born again and have the forgiveness of Jesus, we have to strive to be like Christ. It is a struggle some days, but I know that is what I have to do. We all fail. We are all sinners. The Bible tells us that. But, Jesus forgives us and tells us to "go and sin no more".

I was raised Baptist and my husband was raised Pentecostal Holiness. Two very different denominations. His family is very strict in their religion. When we met, I was faithfully attending church and he was not. We married and then I too walked away from church. I gave up trying because every time I was around his family they told me how wrong I was...you're not suppose to cut your hair, you're not suppose to wear make-up, jewelry, etc. Every time I would go to church with them, the preacher preached about clothing, jewelry and hair. Now, you have to bear in mind that I am the only woman in the building with short hair, jewelry, and make-up. Never once did I hear them preach about God's love and mercy. So, I quit going to church. We began to drink...a lot...and pretty soon I never went to church. We had lots of problems in our marriage.

9 years ago, I was so sick of my life. I knew I wasn't where I needed to be. So I talked to my husband. He said he refused to go to the Baptist church because it was boring...and if you have ever been to a Pentecostal service you understand what he is talking about...and I refused to go to his family's church because they were judgemental and...well, my exact words were that they were NUTS! As we discussed this we remembered a preacher in our town who preached at the Assembly of God church. Even though it is a Pentecostal church I agreed to go because he was so nice and his wife had always been kind to us. That was 9 years ago and I wouldn't go back to where I was for anything. Our preacher preaches every service about sin...and yes, sometimes he "steps on my toes"...but every service he also preaches about how much God loves us and how we should love everyone. He says "God doesn't like sin, but he loves the sinner".

I do want to say something the description about the Exodis group. I did not take the description to mean that a homosexual was ignorant or fearful. I took it to mean people who were ignorant and fearful of homosexuals. I am not sure I said that correctly, but I mean people who think homosexuals all have AIDS or that AIDS is only from the homosexual lifestyle...that is the best example I can think of....and other stupid things people think.

I also want to go back to the original intent of this topic...the movie/books. It was said that Christians shouldn't make a decision about it because we haven't watched it, so we aren't truly informed. But, do we need to watch the Playboy channel or read Penthouse magazine to make an informed decision about what it contains? No, we know it is filth that we shouldn't watch and we definately don't want our children exposed to it. I personally do not believe in banning books...or even movies...but, I believe we can make an informed decision about whether or not to read a book or watch a movie by reading reviews and listening to other people. We must personally choose whether or not to read or watch. I did not ban my children from Harry Potter. They listened to their peers and read reviews and decided on their own that they did not want to give their money to the author because she went against their Christian values.

We have to teach our children right from wrong. Don't just tell them no they can't participate in something or watch something. Tell them why you don't think they need to. Some children can watch Harry Potter...or any other movie about sorcery...and never be influenced by it. But some will be influenced. Some teenagers can play those video games that have shooting, and running from the police, and blood and guts, and they will never think it is okay to go out and hurt someone, rob someone, run from the police. But, some will play the game and begin to think it is reality. You have to know your children. I work with a lot of children and I see how easy it is to influence some of them to do wrong. That is why it is important to know who your children's friends are and what kind of influence they are having on them. Some people are leaders and some are followers. The problem is that sometimes followers can't say no and sometimes leaders take advantage.

 

[jasonmva]

There is NOT two different ways to be saved. There can be different experiences that lead you to finding God as your one true Savior but there is only ONE way to Salvation. By "experiences" I mean if you have not sought God then a situation could get you into church or into His word to seek him things like that. I am not saying two different WAYS of salvation. Trying to be clear with no other interpretations from my word, HA! And that is believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived on Earth as fully man fully God, lived a sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, and rose again 3 days later.

I refer to John 14 6 again to say that there is ONLY ONE way to be saved.

I guess our starting point just got threw out the window! I do appreciate that we seem to be having a good discussion but also staying friendly at the same time with our smilies!

Hopefully I closed the window before it blew away. I see your point and I think that is what I was trying to get at but got so caught up in the moment. Help me see if I have this correct (so afraid to say right) There is only one way to be saved, but different solutions for different people in order to obtain the ultimate goal, which is salvation. How am I doing so far? Can I be considered saved if I give myself wholly to Christ? Now I know you are going to say what exactly I need to give and that is what I am trying to seek. Does it mean that I must take the Bible word for word, regardless if I disagree with some (not all) things in it? If I am not taking it for face value and have disagreement with it, am I not saved?

 

[Shawnna]

I wouldn't say that you aren't saved for diagreeing with some of the Bible. But, I believe that we should follow the Bible exactly as it is written. God did not say "just use the parts you like". I think if you diagree with something in the Bible and you take it to God...pray about it and ask him to help you understand it and show you why you should follow it...he will show you and you will begin to understand and agree with it. God says "If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask for it" and he always gives it to you. I think it is important to pray before you read your Bible. God knows that I struggle with reading his word and I always ask him to show me something new, to help me understand what he means.

 

[sailortena]

I could justify my following thoughts as from a tired woman who was bored and really had nothing better to do late at night:So I was Googling all these different articles about world religions and was thinking how in the greater scheme of things, we are all just doing what is fashionable at the time. Right now, to millions of people, Christianity is IT, the hot thing and they can't think of being anything but. Four thousand years ago the world was totally different. Abraham was the father of Judaism then. That's a long time for one religion to stick around. So as times change, people and their belief systems change a little too, I guess. (I'm just using this as an example; there are other religions that are probably older.)Jesus came along and was talking some really fantastic things to a lot of people, so they really liked what they heard and started passing the word around. Lots of people who felt crushed by a world of many angry gods liked the idea of monotheism, and only having one spouse at a time. And 2,000 years later, the basic tenents of the original purpose still remain, but they have split into many little subgroups. Now think down the road a few hundred years. What people believe now will probably just be a footnote in some future archaeology text, and the way we look at the universe I bet will be totally different. We will finally go to the stars and meet other worlds with other life and our worlds will be changed forever. Who knows, Christianity may not exist any more and our world could turn into that book, Brave New World or 1984. Or the opposite, as depicted in The Handmaid's Tail.Yeah, it's late and I'm tired. What I'm just saying is that many years down the road no one in particular is going to care about what I specifically believed in or how I lived my life. Im comfortable with myself, my sprituality and how I treat other people. I'm loved, I love other people. I go to church when I feel like it, but don't think it's necessary for myself. I pay my taxes, do volunteer work, help the needy. I don't cheat or ever want to hurt anyone or animals. So Im a good person, i'll get my Reward when I go. So will you, no matter what you believe in.Or maybe I'll be abducted by aliens and find out everything was one big cosmic joke.

 

[smarteez2]

AMEN to that!!

I could justify my following thoughts as from a tired woman who was bored and really had nothing better to do late at night:

So I was Googling all these different articles about world religions and was thinking how in the greater scheme of things, we are all just doing what is fashionable at the time. Right now, to millions of people, Christianity is IT, the hot thing and they can't think of being anything but.

Four thousand years ago the world was totally different. Abraham was the father of Judaism then. That's a long time for one religion to stick around. So as times change, people and their belief systems change a little too, I guess. (I'm just using this as an example; there are other religions that are probably older.)

Jesus came along and was talking some really fantastic things to a lot of people, so they really liked what they heard and started passing the word around. Lots of people who felt crushed by a world of many angry gods liked the idea of monotheism, and only having one spouse at a time. And 2,000 years later, the basic tenents of the original purpose still remain, but they have split into many little subgroups.

Now think down the road a few hundred years. What people believe now will probably just be a footnote in some future archaeology text, and the way we look at the universe I bet will be totally different. We will finally go to the stars and meet other worlds with other life and our worlds will be changed forever.

Who knows, Christianity may not exist any more and our world could turn into that book, Brave New World or 1984. Or the opposite, as depicted in The Handmaid's Tail.

Yeah, it's late and I'm tired. What I'm just saying is that many years down the road no one in particular is going to care about what I specifically believed in or how I lived my life. Im comfortable with myself, my sprituality and how I treat other people. I'm loved, I love other people. I go to church when I feel like it, but don't think it's necessary for myself. I pay my taxes, do volunteer work, help the needy. I don't cheat or ever want to hurt anyone or animals. So Im a good person, i'll get my Reward when I go.

So will you, no matter what you believe in.

Or maybe I'll be abducted by aliens and find out everything was one big cosmic joke.

I could not have said it better that!!

 

[JAE]

In response to Jason: Catholics are Christians. Christians are Protestants or Catholics. That is to say, if one is a true Catholic or a true Protestant, one is a Christian.
Too tired to get into any more of this discussion.

 

[jenne]

No other 'religion' (I consider my christianity a faith and active relationship with God...not religion) has God, coming to this earth to live a perfect life, then go to a cross and die a horrible death to pay for the sins we've committed because we can't pay for them ourselves, go to the grave for 3 days and then rise again, and be seen by thousands of people. Christ's ressurrection has never been able to be disproven, because it happened. All other 'religions' serve dead guys...who stayed dead...and you gotta work to get to their version of heaven....

So serve your dead guys if you wish, (and I don't mean that to be disrespectful of anyone) but I'll choose to serve my merciful, graceful, living God. Whether you believe heaven or hell exists doesn't change the fact that it is there. You don't have to believe there is oxygen in the air because you can't see it, but it's there. You all are free to believe what you wish, but I pray that you will open your hearts to the truth that truly exists.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Right

No other 'religion' (I consider my christianity a faith and active relationship with God...not religion) has God, coming to this earth to live a perfect life, then go to a cross and die a horrible death to pay for the sins we've committed because we can't pay for them ourselves, go to the grave for 3 days and then rise again, and be seen by thousands of people. Christ's ressurrection has never been able to be disproven, because it happened. All other 'religions' serve dead guys...who stayed dead...and you gotta work to get to their version of heaven....

So serve your dead guys if you wish, (and I don't mean that to be disrespectful of anyone) but I'll choose to serve my merciful, graceful, living God. Whether you believe heaven or hell exists doesn't change the fact that it is there. You don't have to believe there is oxygen in the air because you can't see it, but it's there. You all are free to believe what you wish, but I pray that you will open your hearts to the truth that truly exists.

That is right. A religion will tell you that you have to work for your salvation. As if we could even play a small part in our salvation!! It's a free gift, and not of ourselves so that no one can boast. Most false religions in the world tell you that you have to do certain things in order to get to heaven. That is not true. The bible is very clear on that. God saves, he doesn't need our help. We would just mess it up.
And I do not agree with that statement that Catholics are Christians and vice versa. It's not true. Our beliefs are very different and therefore not compatible. I used to be a catholic until I was born again. I know that's not a popular statement but it's the truth. According to me, NO! According to God's word.
I am going to bed now. I hope. I have been entering in some of my shows since everyone is asleep.

Debbie :indif:

 

[pckelly]

I used to be a catholic until I was born again. I know that's not a popular statement but it's the truth. According to me, NO! According to God's word.

Didn't think I was going to post anymore, but saw this and said AMEN! Debbie I was also born and raised Catholic, until I was Born Again!! What a different life it has been. And by the way, you don't get to heaven by being a "good" person. Your either a faithful servant, or your not. As I said in a previous post God will say one of two things that day: "Well done my good and faithful servant" or "Depart from me your worker of iniquity, I never knew you!"
And I also have to agree with, I think it was Debbie that said this, that I would rather live my life the way God intends and then find out at the end, I didn't have to work as hard with my christianity, then to live like however and then find out in the end, I had to have Jesus Christ in order to enter Heaven!

 

[jasonmva]

Thanks Debbie(Disclaimer: The following words are meant to be sincere and not snotty or sarcastic) I think by your honest answer about Catholics and Christians is probably a big reason why we have different beleifs. I know you will hate me for saying this but because we do have those different beliefs based on our religious backgrounds, we cannot say I am right or you are wrong, it is just shows how are beliefs are different. We are all going to work toward accepting things in our own ways and that is what makes us individuals.

Now we all know this is not to say that even Catholics are acceptable of my sexuality, but that is a whole other topic in itself.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I know many Catholic Christians - people who have accepted Christ as their Saviour and follow Him.....God really doesn't care about your denomination, and because our salvation is based on grace, and faith, people can come to Christ at any place, any time, and any denomination. In ALL denominations, there are man-made rules and things going on that I'm sure are not the way Jesus would do things. We are human, we can't help ourselves. BUT, at the end of the day, it all comes down to knowing Christ as your Savior, and every day wanting to be more like Him. "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself."

And Jason - I want you to know that although there are things we will never agree on, I don't base how I think of you or treat you based on those things. You are valuable and loved by God - no matter what! And if I am really striving to be like Christ, then that is the way I need to be thinking too.

You are compassionate, smart, fiercely loyal to your friends, and funny (sometimes your posts make me laugh out loud!). Those words are how I define you. (oh - and you also like to cook - which gives us common ground right there!)
I won't be posting on this thread anymore - since I somehow don't seem to fit on either side of this argument going on...but just wanted you to know that when we "meet" on the other threads - I still look forward to chatting with you!

 

[Chef Kearns]

And Jason - I want you to know that although there are things we will never agree on, I don't base how I think of you or treat you based on those things. You are valuable and loved by God - no matter what! And if I am really striving to be like Christ, then that is the way I need to be thinking too.

You are compassionate, smart, fiercely loyal to your friends, and funny (sometimes your posts make me laugh out loud!). Those words are how I define you. (oh - and you also like to cook - which gives us common ground right there!)

I won't be posting on this thread anymore - but just wanted you to know that when we "meet" on the other threads - I still look forward to chatting with you!

Becky-I am using your words for myself. This is how I feel also; however, not just for Jason, but for everyone on "the other side". Be blessed!

 

[pckelly]

When I stated that I was a was raised catholic until I was born again, didn't mean catholics are not Christians. I do know some Catholics that love Christ, ultimately. I just know with my experience, that's why I directed it to Debbie, was that Catholicism NEVER taught ME how to have a personal relationship with Christ. Nor that I could go straight to God for the forgiveness of sins. That's all. But I do know Catholics here that have accepted Christ. I was born and raised in a whole different part of the country than where I am now and that may have something to do with it too.
And Jason is valued and loved by God. Several people have said that. NOBODY said otherwise. EVERYONE is valued and loved by GOD. But as several have pointed out, its sin He will NOT tolerate, not mine, not yours, not anybodys! God loves me, but he won't tolerate sin that I choose to committ time and time again. I have to constantly ask Him for forgiveness, not a day goes by that I don't.

 

[JAE]

That is right. A religion will tell you that you have to work for your salvation. As if we could even play a small part in our salvation!! It's a free gift, and not of ourselves so that no one can boast. Most false religions in the world tell you that you have to do certain things in order to get to heaven. That is not true. The bible is very clear on that. God saves, he doesn't need our help. We would just mess it up.
And I do not agree with that statement that Catholics are Christians and vice versa. It's not true. Our beliefs are very different and therefore not compatible. I used to be a catholic until I was born again. I know that's not a popular statement but it's the truth. According to me, NO! According to God's word.
I am going to bed now. I hope. I have been entering in some of my shows since everyone is asleep.

Debbie :indif:

If you read my post again, I do not make a blanket statement that all Catholics are Christians or that all Protestants are Christians. Rather, they are both Christian religions.
I think it's best not to judge, and making blanket statements like Catholics aren't Christians is a very judgemental statement.
"Judge not, lest you be judged." comes to mind Matthew 7:1). It's one thing to say sin is sin, but's it's another thing to be prejudiced/judgemental.
I am not Catholic, and I don't PERSONALLY know any true Catholics who are true Christians. (I live in a Dutch Reformed area of the state.) But, I have known OF Catholic Christians in my life.

 

[jrstephens]

Hopefully I closed the window before it blew away. I see your point and I think that is what I was trying to get at but got so caught up in the moment. Help me see if I have this correct (so afraid to say right) There is only one way to be saved, but different solutions for different people in order to obtain the ultimate goal, which is salvation. How am I doing so far? Can I be considered saved if I give myself wholly to Christ? Now I know you are going to say what exactly I need to give and that is what I am trying to seek. Does it mean that I must take the Bible word for word, regardless if I disagree with some (not all) things in it? If I am not taking it for face value and have disagreement with it, am I not saved?

Ok. Let me try to say my answer correctly b/c I do not want to "type" anything wrong with this. This is difficult for me to just type out this answer when I know what I want to answer but it is hard to put into words.

There is only one way to be saved, but different solutions for different people in order to obtain the ultimate goal, which is salvation
I am a little unclear as to what you mean my "different solutions," I need some clarification on that. With that said... There is only one way to be saved and not any different steps to get you there. I do believe people have different experiences that lead them to salvation. For example, I was raised in church from the time I was in the 4th grade. I felt God tugging at my heart and telling me it was time to accept Him as my Savior, so, when I was completely sure I believed I went to my pastor and we talked it out and prayed the prayer of salvation. Someone else, that I know was not raised in church, led a horrible drug use life and when they reached rock bottom they sought out the church for help and eventually accepted Christ as their Savior. We both were saved the same WAY we just took different paths to get into church and a relationship with God. That is what I meant earlier when I said "different experiences leading you."

Can I be considered saved if I give myself wholly to Christ? You can be saved by believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived on Earth fully man/full God, died on the cross for our sins and rose 3 days later from the dead. I do believe you have to give yourself wholly to God but I also know people that say they do that without believing the things above and you have to do that. I use "you" in general here b/c only God can know if you are saved are not, that is not for me to judge.

Does it mean that I must take the Bible word for word, regardless if I disagree with some (not all) things in it? If I am not taking it for face value and have disagreement with it, am I not saved? Yes, I believe Christians should take the Bible word for word. God wrote the whole Bible not just parts of it. If He wanted us to only take parts of it, then He would have only written those parts of it. I know the Bible was written by men but it was writting by Godly men that God chose and He gave them the words to write. He did not tell them "Hey write down what you think people should do." He told them "write down what I show and tell you." You can be saved without following everything the Bible says (we all do that b/c none of us are perfect). If we all followed the Bible to the letter then there would be no need for the Cross b/c there would be no need for Jesus to take the punishment of our sins if we had no sin. I believe people can be saved but not be in right relationship with God. I know plenty of people that way. We all must strive to be as Christ like as possible and then when we fail (and we all do) we must ask for forgiveness of those sins.

I do want you to know that I am not in anyway saying whether or not you are saved. THAT BETWEEN YOU AND GOD!! I am not about to judge your salvation, but I do feel the lifestyle is lined up with the word of God.

Goodness, I hope I have typed my answers the way I mean too. I have read and reread them. Why don't you ask me some hard questions next time!!!???

NOTE: Bold print is things Jason asked me and my answers follow in regular print.

 

[jrstephens]

General answer to denominationsI do not believe the denominatins save you as long as they lead you to Salvation. Salvation is not by works. God does not choose from the beginning of time whether or not He will allow you be saved. Salvation is as I have stated many times over and over.

I can understand those statements made on Catholics b/c they are probably like me and the Catholics they know think you get to Heaven on works not on a saving grace of Jesus. We have a convert Catholic in our church that will tell you that in a heart beat. I do believe Catholics can be saved if they have a saving knowledge of the grace of Jesus.

My aunt is Methodist. Do they do some things I do not agree with? yes. Do I believe her when she says she is saved? yes, b/c I know her beliefs.

I have friends that are Assembly and Church of God. Do they do some things I do not agree with? yes. Do I believe them when they say they are saved? yes, b/c I know their beliefs.

And when I say "they do some things I do not agree with," I am not meaning what is right and what is wrong and what it moral and what is immoral.

Only God knows your true heart or not. That is not for me to judge. But the fruits of your life will show people your relationship.

 

[Shawnna]

there have been many good comments hear and lots of great scripture. I don't think anyone is saying Catholics are not saved. I think they are just discussing their own personal experience. I honestly believe that no matter what denomination you attend...Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Holiness, etc...that there will be people in your church...people who attend every service...that will not make it into Heaven. Not everyone who goes to church is a Christian. Many people go to church and never give their heart to Jesus, because they can't give up control. Many people go to church because they want to be in charge..."I give the most money, so I should tell the pastor what he can/cannot preach about". Many people are there because it is what everyone they know is doing. I don't mean that to be judgemental of these people, but you can see it. We all know people who go to church, claim to be a Christian, but once they leave the church, their actions are not Christ-like...and sometimes even UnGodly. There are people like that in every church. Just like there will be people from every denomination in Heaven. If you believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he died on the cross for your sin and rose from the dead 3 days later. If you ask him to forgive your sin, he will. God wants everyone to go to Heaven, but he has made it perfectly clear in his word that not everyone will make that choice. And yes, it is a personal choice. He gave us free will to choose. He wants us all to love him, but how good would it be for us to love him because we had to...and not because we want to. I pray every day for God to forgive me for my sins and to forgive me where I fail him. I pray for protection for my family...and even our home, animals, and property. God has blessed us abundantly. He wants to bless his people. He says he will bless us more than we could ever imagine. All we have to do is do what he asks us to do in his word...and in our hearts...and he will bless us beyond our wildest imagination. He says he wants to bless us according to "HIS riches in glory"...WOW

 

[Leigh0725]

When I stated that I was a was raised catholic until I was born again, didn't mean catholics are not Christians. I do know some Catholics that love Christ, ultimately. I just know with my experience, that's why I directed it to Debbie, was that Catholicism NEVER taught ME how to have a personal relationship with Christ. Nor that I could go straight to God for the forgiveness of sins. That's all. But I do know Catholics here that have accepted Christ. I was born and raised in a whole different part of the country than where I am now and that may have something to do with it too.
And Jason is valued and loved by God. Several people have said that. NOBODY said otherwise. EVERYONE is valued and loved by GOD. But as several have pointed out, its sin He will NOT tolerate, not mine, not yours, not anybodys! God loves me, but he won't tolerate sin that I choose to committ time and time again. I have to constantly ask Him for forgiveness, not a day goes by that I don't.

Umm, I beg to differ on your statement Kelly. I am Catholic (though more of a liberal Catholic), and have a great personal relationship with Christ. I also go to God for my forgiveness of sins. You don't have to confess all the time with a priest. That little prayer that Father says at the beginning of mass, "Lord have mercy....Christ have mercy...." that is when you bring forward your sins to confess. I went to Catholic school and was told that this was a huge misconception of Catholics. Everyone thinks that you can only confess your sins with a Priest. It just isn't true.

Thought I am more liberal than most Catholics, I still feel I have a great relationship with God. I pray everyday and take time to talk with him. I repent when needed. I honestly believe that God is understanding and forgiving when society changes. I know I may be opening up a pandora's box by commenting like this, but this is what I believe. Jason you have my full support and will always see you as an equal.

I'm a huge believer in things happening for a reason and God putting on a specific path. So here is a thought, how many of you gals (that are Christian) use birth control? Or how many have needed to seek medical intervention in order to get pregnant? I find it odd that so many folks will push the Bible and say you have to follow every word, however, they choose to use birth control (whether it's a pill or condom, etc...). Or look to science/medical intervention when they are trying to get pregnant or in need stem cells for a cure. So much goes into preaching against those things that you may not believe in, but once you get into a certain situation, some are quick to change their beliefs. My DH and I have always agreed that if we cannot get pregnant on our own, it is God's will and we will adopt. This is just my belief and opnion.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Let me clarify

If you read my post again, I do not make a blanket statement that all Catholics are Christians or that all Protestants are Christians. Rather, they are both Christian religions.
I think it's best not to judge, and making blanket statements like Catholics aren't Christians is a very judgemental statement.
"Judge not, lest you be judged." comes to mind Matthew 7:1). It's one thing to say sin is sin, but's it's another thing to be prejudiced/judgemental.
I am not Catholic, and I don't PERSONALLY know any true Catholics who are true Christians. (I live in a Dutch Reformed area of the state.) But, I have known OF Catholic Christians in my life.

I want to clarify. I am not saying Catholics cannot come out of the Catholic church and be saved. I am one of them. But I know there is no salvation in the catholic church as an organization. And that is what it is, an organization. It gives you criteria to follow and if you don't you won't go to heaven. Simple, they are putting works in the place of Christ. That is not something you do. It is not judgmental to speak truth. I was a catholic, I am no longer a catholic but a born again believer. I found salvation away from the catholic church.

Oh and Jason, I could never hate you or anyone else. LOL I love to have discussions with other adults. Those who say you should never discuss religion or politics are wrong. It is totally ok to discuss those things as long as we are civil and honest about our feelings. There is no need for name calling or rude attitudes. I am enjoying this exchange of different points of view.
The bible tells us to defend the faith and to be ready with an answer for those who ask of the hope that is in us. Paul the apostle and the other apostles shared Christ everywhere they went and so must we.

Debbie

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Freedom

Umm, I beg to differ on your statement Kelly. I am Catholic (though more of a liberal Catholic), and have a great personal relationship with Christ. I also go to God for my forgiveness of sins. You don't have to confess all the time with a priest. That little prayer that Father says at the beginning of mass, "Lord have mercy....Christ have mercy...." that is when you bring forward your sins to confess. I went to Catholic school and was told that this was a huge misconception of Catholics. Everyone thinks that you can only confess your sins with a Priest. It just isn't true.

Thought I am more liberal than most Catholics, I still feel I have a great relationship with God. I pray everyday and take time to talk with him. I repent when needed. I honestly believe that God is understanding and forgiving when society changes. I know I may be opening up a pandora's box by commenting like this, but this is what I believe. Jason you have my full support and will always see you as an equal.

I'm a huge believer in things happening for a reason and God putting on a specific path. So here is a thought, how many of you gals (that are Christian) use birth control? Or how many have needed to seek medical intervention in order to get pregnant? I find it odd that so many folks will push the Bible and say you have to follow every word, however, they choose to use birth control (whether it's a pill or condom, etc...). Or look to science/medical intervention when they are trying to get pregnant or in need stem cells for a cure. So much goes into preaching against those things that you may not believe in, but once you get into a certain situation, some are quick to change their beliefs. My DH and I have always agreed that if we cannot get pregnant on our own, it is God's will and we will adopt. This is just my belief and opnion.

I agree with you. I don't think birth control is right for me or my family. I do not need to seek intervention for my pregnancies (I have five children) thanks to a wonderful loving and merciful God. I can get pregnant very easily. And no we do not use any form of birth control, we use a sort of natural family planning with a machine. It tells me when I am fertile and when I am not. WE did take family planning classes but this is much easier than all the temperature taking, charting and work.
Like I said in a post before Paul tells us in the Word of God that although all things are lawful, they are not all profitable.
We as Christians have freedom to do what we feel is right for our families. That will not always fall into line with everyone else. Some may choose to see a movie, I would never see myself or with my family. Others may choose to have some wine with dinner, I stay away completely from all forms of alcohol. I choose to do that and is the person who has wine lost or sinning? No of course not as long as they are not getting drunk.
The only time something is wrong or sinful is when it comes against the Word of God and something specific in scripture is condemning an action. The bible is wonderful and everything we need to live by God's standards. We all must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Debbie

 

[jasonmva]

Ok. Let me try to say my answer correctly b/c I do not want to "type" anything wrong with this. This is difficult for me to just type out this answer when I know what I want to answer but it is hard to put into words.

There is only one way to be saved, but different solutions for different people in order to obtain the ultimate goal, which is salvation
I am a little unclear as to what you mean my "different solutions," I need some clarification on that. With that said... There is only one way to be saved and not any different steps to get you there. I do believe people have different experiences that lead them to salvation. For example, I was raised in church from the time I was in the 4th grade. I felt God tugging at my heart and telling me it was time to accept Him as my Savior, so, when I was completely sure I believed I went to my pastor and we talked it out and prayed the prayer of salvation. Someone else, that I know was not raised in church, led a horrible drug use life and when they reached rock bottom they sought out the church for help and eventually accepted Christ as their Savior. We both were saved the same WAY we just took different paths to get into church and a relationship with God. That is what I meant earlier when I said "different experiences leading you."

Can I be considered saved if I give myself wholly to Christ? You can be saved by believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived on Earth fully man/full God, died on the cross for our sins and rose 3 days later from the dead. I do believe you have to give yourself wholly to God but I also know people that say they do that without believing the things above and you have to do that. I use "you" in general here b/c only God can know if you are saved are not, that is not for me to judge.

Does it mean that I must take the Bible word for word, regardless if I disagree with some (not all) things in it? If I am not taking it for face value and have disagreement with it, am I not saved? Yes, I believe Christians should take the Bible word for word. God wrote the whole Bible not just parts of it. If He wanted us to only take parts of it, then He would have only written those parts of it. I know the Bible was written by men but it was writting by Godly men that God chose and He gave them the words to write. He did not tell them "Hey write down what you think people should do." He told them "write down what I show and tell you." You can be saved without following everything the Bible says (we all do that b/c none of us are perfect). If we all followed the Bible to the letter then there would be no need for the Cross b/c there would be no need for Jesus to take the punishment of our sins if we had no sin. I believe people can be saved but not be in right relationship with God. I know plenty of people that way. We all must strive to be as Christ like as possible and then when we fail (and we all do) we must ask for forgiveness of those sins.

I do want you to know that I am not in anyway saying whether or not you are saved. THAT BETWEEN YOU AND GOD!! I am not about to judge your salvation, but I do feel the lifestyle is lined up with the word of God.

Goodness, I hope I have typed my answers the way I mean too. I have read and reread them. Why don't you ask me some hard questions next time!!!???

NOTE: Bold print is things Jason asked me and my answers follow in regular print.

The different solutions would be the different paths that we follow in order to reach the ultimate goal so I get where you are coming from one that.

And I do believe that Christ died for my sins and was raised again on the 3rd day. So there is another think we can agree on (I know shocking, isn't it!)

I can also see how my previous statement about the bible being written by man could have been taken incorrectly and you worded it perfectly. I do believe the men chosen to write the original (Hebrew language) bible were chosen by God. I don't agree with some of it but some I do. Sometimes I get frustrated with the words, but understand the lesson.

And Leigh - I'm with ya girl! I have always felt that I didn't need the "middle man" (the priest) in order to talk to God and confess my sins. Mark me down as the more liberal Catholic as well! I also agree that we all were put on this Earth for a specific reason that only God knows. It reminds me of the cute little joke that goes something along the lines of If you want to make God laugh, tell him YOUR plan

And Jennifer - here is my harder question for you....why is the sky blue

 

[pckelly]

Umm, I beg to differ on your statement Kelly. I am Catholic (though more of a liberal Catholic), and have a great personal relationship with Christ. I also go to God for my forgiveness of sins. You don't have to confess all the time with a priest. That little prayer that Father says at the beginning of mass, "Lord have mercy....Christ have mercy...." that is when you bring forward your sins to confess. I went to Catholic school and was told that this was a huge misconception of Catholics. Everyone thinks that you can only confess your sins with a Priest. It just isn't true.

Thought I am more liberal than most Catholics, I still feel I have a great relationship with God. I pray everyday and take time to talk with him. I repent when needed. I honestly believe that God is understanding and forgiving when society changes. I know I may be opening up a pandora's box by commenting like this, but this is what I believe. Jason you have my full support and will always see you as an equal.

I'm a huge believer in things happening for a reason and God putting on a specific path. So here is a thought, how many of you gals (that are Christian) use birth control? Or how many have needed to seek medical intervention in order to get pregnant? I find it odd that so many folks will push the Bible and say you have to follow every word, however, they choose to use birth control (whether it's a pill or condom, etc...). Or look to science/medical intervention when they are trying to get pregnant or in need stem cells for a cure. So much goes into preaching against those things that you may not believe in, but once you get into a certain situation, some are quick to change their beliefs. My DH and I have always agreed that if we cannot get pregnant on our own, it is God's will and we will adopt. This is just my belief and opnion.

What do you mean you beg to differ on my statement????????????????????????????????????????? My statement was from the way I was raised in MY catholic church and I also went to a catholic school. Who are you to tell me how MY catholic church taught me. Not ALL catholic churches do the same thing. So you can differ with my statement all you want, I am not telling you what your catholic church taught you! I said that the way I was raised they did not teach me to have a personal relationship with Christ, and that I had to go to the priest for forgiveness of sins. If you had read the rest of my post I also said that I DO KNOW CATHOLICS that have accepted Christ. I was speaking of personal experience, so what you have experienced with the catholic church might be different.

This is what I said in my above post: Catholicism NEVER taught ME to have a personal relationship with Christ. You need to read the post thoroughly. I didn't say it doesn't teach ANYONE!

 

[jrstephens]

The different solutions would be the different paths that we follow in order to reach the ultimate goal so I get where you are coming from one that.

And I do believe that Christ died for my sins and was raised again on the 3rd day. So there is another think we can agree on (I know shocking, isn't it!)

I can also see how my previous statement about the bible being written by man could have been taken incorrectly and you worded it perfectly. I do believe the men chosen to write the original (Hebrew language) bible were chosen by God. I don't agree with some of it but some I do. Sometimes I get frustrated with the words, but understand the lesson.

And Jennifer - here is my harder question for you....why is the sky blue

It is shocking we agreed on so much this time!!!

And Jennifer - here is my harder question for you....why is the sky blue
That's question is easy!!! B/c God made it that way!:angel:

 

[jrstephens]

And Leigh - I'm with ya girl! I have always felt that I didn't need the "middle man" (the priest) in order to talk to God and confess my sins.

I forgot to include that I agree with you too on no need for a middle man! is the sky falling, HA!

 

[Leigh0725]

I wasn't meaning to personally attack you Kelly. I ended up typing out my initial reaction before going back to see if my words would be taken in a different light. I in no way was trying to say that the way you were taught was wrong. I merely wanted to state that there are different things being taught within the Catholic religion. I did read ALL of your post and mainly wanted to state that confession of sins does not have to be solely with your Priest. This is a concept I am trying to explain to my SIL. She is Southern Baptist and says that I am not saved b/c I do not accept Christ into my heart and doesn't understand why I have to go to a Priest to confess my sins.

I apologize for the wording, yes, that was bad on my part.

 

[pckelly]

I know now you don't have to go to a middle man, but when you are taught as a little kid that you have to go to the priest for forgiveness, that is just the way it is.

 

[pckelly]

I wasn't meaning to personally attack you Kelly. I ended up typing out my initial reaction before going back to see if my words would be taken in a different light. I in no way was trying to say that the way you were taught was wrong. I merely wanted to state that there are different things being taught within the Catholic religion. I did read ALL of your post and mainly wanted to state that confession of sins does not have to be solely with your Priest. This is a concept I am trying to explain to my SIL. She is Southern Baptist and says that I am not saved b/c I do not accept Christ into my heart and doesn't understand why I have to go to a Priest to confess my sins.

I apologize for the wording, yes, that was bad on my part.

Don't apologize, I was just didn't think what I wrote was read right that's all!

 

[janetupnorth]

And Jennifer - here is my harder question for you....why is the sky blue

I had to jump in because my 6 year old would say, "Duh Mom, because God created it that color and He knows best."


...and here is the science answer:

Blue Sky - Why is the Sky Blue?

 

[pckelly]

I had to jump in because my 6 year old would say, "Duh Mom, because God created it that color and He knows best."


...and here is the science answer:

Blue Sky - Why is the Sky Blue?

Janet, LOL!! My son would say the same thing, it's amazing how things are so simple for kids, we are the ones that make it hard. Like DUH, MOM of course God created it that color! LOL!! LOVE IT!!

 

[jasonmva]

I think, in general, all Catholic churches try to be on the same page as directed by the Vatican. Kelly - I too never got why we had to confess to the priest. Yes, I was taught the he is not really the priest, but a life line to God (oh great, now I am playing Who Wants to Be a Millionaire!!) but I always wondered why I need to go into the booth and tell him instead of talking straight to God in my living room or in my car.

The reason I stopped attending my church was because (cover your ears, I am gonna sin here but will repent it later) the priest at the time was an idiot. My dad never attended services and my mom had to work on Sundays so she rarely was able to take me to church. The preiest thought I should walk to church. now, we lived on a major highway and there was no easy way to get to the church without walking along the highway and down a heavily traveled road. i was also in middle school at the time so no driver's license yet. The priest also felt that I should not be a teacher's aide or teach a religion class myself because I was not attending every since Sunday. Even when my mother explanined the situation, he viewed it as an excuse. Well, he not only lost me but also my mom due to this. For the longest time, I never attended services because I felt why go to a building when I can be at home, in my jammies (not footies, they don't make them in my size :cry: ) and talk to God one on one. Am I wrong for wanting to be with God in that way, maybe, but it felt right to me.

 

[janetupnorth]

Ok, sorry to break up the seriousness, but Jason keeps making me think of funny things...Ever attend Bedside Baptist with Pastor Pillow speaking about the Great Comforter?

 

[janetupnorth]

Once in awhile Minister Mattress speaks and Sister Sheets jumps in with a solo accompanied by the Couch Choir.

 

[jasonmva]

I forgot to include that I agree with you too on no need for a middle man! is the sky falling, HA!

Ya know...the other thing I always wondered about the whole confession with the priest is how did he know the number of Hail mary's and Our Father's for me to say? Does he have a dart board in there while I am talking and whatever it lands on that is my penence?

 

[janetupnorth]

(Please now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion)....and on the priest thing, I agree. He is just a man and has no more right to God that each of us. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. God cannot be in the presence of sin, hence when Christ took on our sin, he was separated from God. When he rose again and conquered sin, he made the way for us to commune with God again. We approach God through Christ and what he did on the cross. Christ's blood covers our sin and allows us to be with God in prayer and in person someday.

 

[jasonmva]

Ok, sorry to break up the seriousness, but Jason keeps making me think of funny things...

Ever attend Bedside Baptist with Pastor Pillow speaking about the Great Comforter?

Now that explains why I always felt sleepy when the priest would give his sermon!

 

[jasonmva]

(Please now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion).

...and on the priest thing, I agree. He is just a man and has no more right to God that each of us. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. God cannot be in the presence of sin, hence when Christ took on our sin, he was separated from God. When he rose again and conquered sin, he made the way for us to commune with God again. We approach God through Christ and what he did on the cross. Christ's blood covers our sin and allows us to be with God in prayer and in person someday.

That must be why we Catholics use wine, it helps numb the pain.

(OK - I promise I will stop now and try to be serious again)

 

[jasonmva]

I had to jump in because my 6 year old would say, "Duh Mom, because God created it that color and He knows best."


...and here is the science answer:

Blue Sky - Why is the Sky Blue?

AH HA!!!! So it is really just white light that is messing with our minds!