Politics What I Like About Obama: A Balanced Perspective on the Presidential Candidate

[BethCooks4U]

And for the arguement that some poor girl might resort to some illegal unsafe way to get an abortion is kind of silly. Ray Comfort said it best: "Oh the poor murderer can't find a person to kill her baby."

Just want to clear something up since I'm the one who said that a girl might resort to an unsafe abortion. I do consider it murder and I never said I thought she was right in getting an abortion but be realistic, there will be girls who are so desperate that they can't/don't see the beautiful child they are carrying. With guidance and counseling they just might save that baby but if it's illegal fewer of them will.

 

[Intrepid_Chef]

Which are based on the doctrine of all religions not just Christian ones. I think that was Di's point.

Exactly.

The highest foreclosure rate in the country is in heavly populated areas of illegals.

Um ... not true. I live in Ohio, where foreclosure rates are through the roof ... on par with areas hit by major hurricanes! Here in my state, we have had many major factories close, and predatory lending has been a huge issue. When you lose your job, and your lender changes the terms on your loan, what else are you going to do? Also ... here in Ohio I know there may be immigrants, but I personally have not met any. I do know there is a large migrant community in the region... those are hardly the folks blessed with home ownership.

I'm all for immigration, but legally.

Agreed. Thank you for making that clear.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Just want to clear something up since I'm the one who said that a girl might resort to an unsafe abortion. I do consider it murder and I never said I thought she was right in getting an abortion but be realistic, there will be girls who are so desperate that they can't/don't see the beautiful child they are carrying. With guidance and counseling they just might save that baby but if it's illegal fewer of them will.

Really? I think the opposite. If it's illegal at least that will be a great incentive not to do it. Adoption would be a better option for them and a safer one. Just because abortion is "legal" does not mean it's safe. It's unnatural and done by doctors that are not trained to do them. There is no school for learning abortions. I think if it's illegal they will be prone to either not do it, use protection or give their baby to an adoption agency. Some women I have talked to use abortion as a contraceptive. Especially now that we have the morning after pills and abortions that are so convenient and cheap.
And I never implied you said it was right in getting an abortion. I just wanted to come against the idea that a desperate girl might want to get an abortion done illegally and get hurt in the process. Remember abortions were illegal before Roe vs Wade and there were fewer teen pregnancies than there are now.
What have 16 years of abortion done to our nation? Planned Parenthood’s sex education services have proliferated considerably onto junior-high and high school campuses. Consequently, studies indicate that the rate of teen pregnancies has skyrocketed, along with the use of contraceptives. Each year, over one million teenage girls become pregnant … resulting in 400,000 abortions.

Read this article here:
Norma McCorvey: "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade — The Forerunner

Debbie

 

[DebbieSAChef]

I've had the abortion conversation with my mom, as well as the sex ed one. Here's how it went:

Mom: I don't know how you can vote for Obama when he's for ABORTION!
Me: Uh...he's pro-choice.
Mom: Same thing! And if you vote for him, it means you're for abortion. Are you for abortion?
Me: No.
Mom: So how can you vote for him?
Me: Because he gives women a choice. I don't think abortion is the answer, but I am only one person. And if some woman chooses to have one and can live with that, let her and God decide what was right and wrong.
Mom: <grumbling, walking into another room.>

Later that day...

Mom: I like McCain and I especially like Sarah Palin! I don't think sex ed has any place in school.
Me: Right. Where should kids learn about sex and reproduction then?
Mom: From their parents!
Me: Like the talk you and I had?
(Note: we had no talk.)
Mom: (no response)

I get very flustered talking with my mom. One question I'd like to ask (I think...may regret later) how come with more conservative people it always comes down to abortion? Aren't there way more issues than that affecting more people?

I am glad you asked. As a matter of fact it is VERY important to me if someone is going to continue to allow the innocent slaughter of unborn, helpless children. It's a biggy in my book. This affects millions of people everyday. I have seen lives ruined, families torn apart and women who can no longer bear children because of this unnatural curse. It's not the only issue I look at but usually the more conservative person who is against abortion is usually for other things I agree with. And not to defend your mother but when you heard things about sex in school, did you ask your mother about it and did you get no response?
I have friends who also never had "the talk" with their mothers. My mother talked with me but she was not a Christian and even though she had "the talk" with me, she allowed me to spend the night with my boyfriend and lied to my father about it. I think parenting and God go hand in hand. If we look in the bible, and pray to the Lord, we will find the answers to all of life's questions.
If I saw a mother beating a small child to death in a parking lot, I would not hesitate to intervene and stop her. How is abortion different? Because the child is in her body, so it should be her choice to kill the child? I think there are many foolish people in the world and laws help to govern them and keep them from crossing the line. But when man's laws come against God's laws, that's where we as Christians have to draw the line. Just food for thought.

Debbie

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Thanks for the post on the forclosure rate in Pr William County. I am sure that those figures rival the forclosure rate in other parts of the country from white homeowners as well.

As the article you linked to stated, 7-8% of foreclosures in that particular county were from Hispanic homeowners, and I see that 12% of the foreclosures were from the non-hispanic population as well.

Are you from there? I can't believe the average home prices! $400,000 - $700,000 -- I don't think these are homes that illegal immigrents are purchasing. The average home price in that county rose 150% since 2000.

In all actuality, the highest rates of foreclosures are not only in heavily Hispanic populated areas...according to Bloomberg's article on Sept 12th, Nevada, California, Arizona, Florida and New Jersey are the top 5 states. Most as a result of heavy new contruction and falsely elevated home prices.

I guess you didn't read the article regarding Whicovia Bank in Calif.

Stockton, Calif had 1 in 50 homes forclosed and Fort Myers, Fla had 1 in 66.

This is just another product of lending institutions being deregulated and not having rules to follow when lending. I don't know if it is only related to Hispanics, though. I do know that people everywhere are undergoing forclosures at an amazing rate. Foreclosure rates are up 27% from a year ago.

I agree it's not just illegal Hispanics - my original post stated they are adding to the problem in this country. They are called "illegal" for a reason.

Another part of deregulation is the banking industry, which was in a hey-day until last week, lending to anyone who would sign a paper....big business banking has been under scrutiny more than once in our history, as McCain well knows:

Keating Five - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, McCain had warrned about the banking system for a long time, but nobody would listen.

I also found the information about the Social Security vote, that stated Obama voted for the bill which would allow immagrent, non-documented workers would be allowed to claim their money from Social Security, to which they had paid into while working here using sometimes false documentation and social security numbers....which I don't agree with. However, Sen McCain did--

Sen. McCain Defended Giving Retroactive Social Security Benefits For Illegal Work:

Sen. McCain: "It Would Be Wrong To Deny Hardworking Men And Women Credit For All The Dollars They've Paid Into Social Security From Their Often Meager Wages." (Dena Bunis, "Guest-Worker Provision Survives," Orange County Register, 5/19/06)

Does this comment mean they should have full SS benefits?

And so McCain was for it as well....kind of like Sarah was FOR it before she was against it with the bridge thing.

Thank you for your response, Rhonda, you cleared that all up!

I think we agree more then we disagree, but you just seem to be angry w/me regarding the illegal issue. There are many problems that have led to the financial issues in this country. Like I told Beth we are in for a long hard time. I just know a system that is already failing should not be supporting people who CHOOSE to come here illegally. I don't care if they are coming to better their family, life, etc. We can't let everyone in the world come here. I have great friends from Germany who would like to become US citizens. They are trying to do it legally.

 

[tlag1986]

I am glad you asked. As a matter of fact it is VERY important to me if someone is going to continue to allow the innocent slaughter of unborn, helpless children. It's a biggy in my book. This affects millions of people everyday. I have seen lives ruined, families torn apart and women who can no longer bear children because of this unnatural curse. It's not the only issue I look at but usually the more conservative person who is against abortion is usually for other things I agree with. And not to defend your mother but when you heard things about sex in school, did you ask your mother about it and did you get no response?
I have friends who also never had "the talk" with their mothers. My mother talked with me but she was not a Christian and even though she had "the talk" with me, she allowed me to spend the night with my boyfriend and lied to my father about it. I think parenting and God go hand in hand. If we look in the bible, and pray to the Lord, we will find the answers to all of life's questions.
If I saw a mother beating a small child to death in a parking lot, I would not hesitate to intervene and stop her. How is abortion different? Because the child is in her body, so it should be her choice to kill the child? I think there are many foolish people in the world and laws help to govern them and keep them from crossing the line. But when man's laws come against God's laws, that's where we as Christians have to draw the line. Just food for thought.

Debbie

If you truly believe this then are you taking in foster kids that have no parents with Christian backgrounds to instruct them about sex? We have less Christian families than non-traditional families, and our values or morals are not theirs. I am for pro-choice only because I cannot judge lest I be judged, but I can encourage anyone that adoption is a viable choice.

In a statement earlier about physicians not getting training in abortions, is a false statement. All OB/Gyn physicians get training it is called a Dilation and Curettage (D&C). D&C is used when women have miscarriages, or incomplete miscarriages (spontaneous abortions, or missed abortions).

I do understand where you are coming from. I am a strong based Christian woman, but I also know I cannot force someone who has had a traumatic short life to have a child they did not want. I also agree with Planned Parenthood in that they encourage people to know their own bodies well enough to be able to determine their own needs.

About teaching my children about Sex Education we had the focus to answer any question our kids asked. Sometimes the questions were more than I felt they were ready for, but I always told them they would only be told the truth when they asked. We continued with this focus and now have 4 kids 23, 21, 20, and 18 with no grandchildren as of yet.

I have been to a church that when I started attending was the most loving and caring church willing to help anyone. They turned after years to say they need to be Righteous about their views. We that it appears as judgment in most eyes and would be considered judgment to a non believers eyes and how would we be able to encourage people to continue growing with us. They were adamant they needed to be Righteous, and soon afterwords people started leaving the Righteous Church.

If we push our views on people before they understand why we have our views we will not be able to teach them abortion is wrong. Everyone needs to have choices, and if we have choices we do make better decisions. IMHO

 

[Jennie4PC]

I personally don't think there is a good choice. I don't think either one is going to be the saviour for our country or economy. We in the US are in for a long hard time I'm afraid. Whichever party has the presidency if they don't have majority in the house or senate they won't be able to accomplish much. We have had that problem for the past 2 years.

I personally wish we would just go to a flat tax. I know the very wealthy will say (Rush Limbaugh) "The top 10% of income winners pay 50% of the tax" or something close to that. I always want to ask, "Yeah, but how much of their income - maybe they should be paying 75%!" It's all in the wording.

I'm for the flat tax because why should someone who has worked hard, taken risk to start a business, etc., have to pay a higher percentage then others. How is this not socialism if we take from one and give to another. We all have the same oppportuntiy to succeed in the US. Just like many have said w/PC - we all start with the same starter kit. Should I get the same commission as David Meanen (sp?)? No, I haven't worked my business as hard.

My husband and I make double the amount of money my sister and her husband do, but our "bring home" is only about 15% more because of the tax system. My husband and I both went to college and have worked very hard to get to the income level we are at - but it discourages you when you see others who don't pay any tax and actually get paid by the government to stay home. Not only that in the state of Indiana my sister's children will be able to attend a state college for free. My daughter received no aid for college this year.

I totally agree with the flat tax if we all paid ex 10% of our taxes then I can see our country getting out of debt.

 

[jwpamp]

Oh Rhonda, I'm not angry about the "illegal" issue, just wondering what "illegals" you are talking about.

I think a good hearted discussion is helpful in decision making, but there is no reason to interject when there is no change to be made in another's decision.

This is a good place for pro-Obama people to share thoughts, and so as I said in the other thread (and so sorry to re-post), I will play in my yard and you can play in yours.

All is good!

 

[Hathery]

Thanks for starting this thread; it is so far much more civil than the previous political threads!I have a question regarding pro-life issues (and I'm not asking this to stir the pot in any way, I just really would like to know the answer.) How can some pro-life people be against abortion but also against contraception? It seems unreasonable to me; I hope someone can shed some light on this.

 

[jwpamp]

I agree that this is a more calm discussion, no slamming the other side, but instead a good hearted conversation.

In answer to your question, while abortion blatently kills the fetus, contraception prevents an egg from being released, and in the event that it is released, it will prevent the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. The woman's monthly menstrual cycle will pass the fertilized egg with the flow.

Depending on when you believe life begins, contraception would also be viewed as aborting a human life, or not allowing it to happen.

Hope that helps!

 

[Jessamary]

Especially now that we have the morning after pills and abortions that are so convenient and cheap.

So, I will put myself on the chopping block here and say something about my personal life. I have taken the morning after pill and I am not an unmarried woman or irresponsible heathen. A method of birth control broke (if you know what I mean) and we had had a baby only 6 months before. It was definitely NOT the time.

The morning after pill is not an abortion! Not any more so than the pill, and it burns me up when people say things like this. It's a scientific fact that the morning after pill will not abort a pregnancy. It's a dose of a hormone (levonorgestrel) found in birth control pills, only more of to prevent a pregnancy.

What you are probably thinking of is RU-486, which is the abortion pill, so to speak. Please make sure you know the difference.

I am a Christian and was raised such, so while researching the morning after pill, I looked at pharmaceutical web sites, as well as Christian ones. Here's one I found interesting.

The Abortion Pill and the Morning-After Pill: Are They the Same?

 

[JAE]

Thanks for starting this thread; it is so far much more civil than the previous political threads!I have a question regarding pro-life issues (and I'm not asking this to stir the pot in any way, I just really would like to know the answer.) How can some pro-life people be against abortion but also against contraception? It seems unreasonable to me; I hope someone can shed some light on this.

My answer to that is that I'm not against contraception. I'm against public schools, Planned Parenthood or anyone giving contraception away to kids. I'm against my tax dollars going to pay for programs that give contraception away to kids. I'm against my tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood because I believe they are abortion factories rather than "family planning clinics". I think public education should be required to educate with the truth. Abstinence is the only way to be sure a baby is not made and the only way to guarantee no STD. Fine, if contraceptives are taught, but the whole truth should be taught along with the fact that sex is not a right or a need. Girls and even boys can wait until they are responsible adults to have sex.

A friend of mine has a son in 7th grade. She had to help him study for a test on the female reproductive system. They both thought it was strange, and she thought it was unnecessary at this point. Granted, if my son was in that public school he wouldn't have been taking that class, but we talk to our kids about sex and our values as they relate to sex. She could have opted out and she didn't. Her choice.

Our schools are in trouble. They don't get the results they need and they don't have enough money, so they say. Hmmm. I wonder what should be cut.

 

[Hathery]

I agree that this is a more calm discussion, no slamming the other side, but instead a good hearted conversation.

In answer to your question, while abortion blatently kills the fetus, contraception prevents an egg from being released, and in the event that it is released, it will prevent the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. The woman's monthly menstrual cycle will pass the fertilized egg with the flow.

Depending on when you believe life begins, contraception would also be viewed as aborting a human life, or not allowing it to happen.

Hope that helps!

But if the egg isn't implanted, then is it a human being or just a joined cell?

 

[Hathery]

My answer to that is that I'm not against contraception. I'm against public schools, Planned Parenthood or anyone giving contraception away to kids. I'm against my tax dollars going to pay for programs that give contraception away to kids. I'm against my tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood because I believe they are abortion factories rather than "family planning clinics". I think public education should be required to educate with the truth. Abstinence is the only way to be sure a baby is not made and the only way to guarantee no STD. Fine, if contraceptives are taught, but the whole truth should be taught along with the fact that sex is not a right or a need. Girls and even boys can wait until they are responsible adults to have sex.

A friend of mine has a son in 7th grade. She had to help him study for a test on the female reproductive system. They both thought it was strange, and she thought it was unnecessary at this point. Granted, if my son was in that public school he wouldn't have been taking that class, but we talk to our kids about sex and our values as they relate to sex. She could have opted out and she didn't. Her choice.

Our schools are in trouble. They don't get the results they need and they don't have enough money, so they say. Hmmm. I wonder what should be cut.

My sex-ed in school was awful. All they did was make us label diagrams of female and male anatomy (mostly female...) for 5 straight years. I really wish they would have focused on the contraception and myths vs. realities of pregnancy and sex rather than anatomy. Sexual reproductive anatomy is important and all, but we have biology for that!

 

[jwpamp]

Hathery, it all depends on what you believe....

I think that it depends on when you view the creation of 'life' ....if at the moment of conception, then yes, the pill MAY force an abortion. It doesn't, however, mean that an abortion did or did not happen -- no one could know if a fertilized egg was present. The egg, fertilized or not, would be lost thru the the flow of menstrual cycle.

If you believe that 'life' occurs when the fertilized egg is implanted in the womb, then the same would be true, since the pill will force a fertilized egg to be lost in the slough of the menstural cycle.

If you view 'life' as occuring at birth, then 'abortion' is a mute point.

I can't figure out a better way to explain it. I am Catholic and have taught many teens on the issue, so believe me when I say I have done my "homework". Catholic belief states that life begins at conception...and so ANYTHING you do to abort a fetus (pill or sugerically) is a sin. Since you wouldn't know if an egg was fertilized or not with the pill, they also consider that to be an unacceptable form of birth control....hence the "oh, you must be Catholic because you have 10 kids!" oh, I am sooooo just kidding there!!!

The Catholic Church supports the 'rhthym' method.

I, personally, preferred the pill. It was much more assuring.

 

[Hathery]

So, I will put myself on the chopping block here and say something about my personal life. I have taken the morning after pill and I am not an unmarried woman or irresponsible heathen. A method of birth control broke (if you know what I mean) and we had had a baby only 6 months before. It was definitely NOT the time.

The morning after pill is not an abortion! Not any more so than the pill, and it burns me up when people say things like this. It's a scientific fact that the morning after pill will not abort a pregnancy. It's a dose of a hormone (levonorgestrel) found in birth control pills, only more of to prevent a pregnancy.

What you are probably thinking of is RU-486, which is the abortion pill, so to speak. Please make sure you know the difference.

I am a Christian and was raised such, so while researching the morning after pill, I looked at pharmaceutical web sites, as well as Christian ones. Here's one I found interesting.

The Abortion Pill and the Morning-After Pill: Are They the Same?

I took the MA pill too, when I was about 17 yrs old. I took it because something "broke" as well, and I wasn't on the birth control pill at the time. I wasn't on the pill because I was afraid to tell my parents I was sexually active. The point I'm making is...as important as it is to have a good dialogue with your kids on this subject, not all kids are going to be comfortable coming to their parents with this information. I was a strong Christian at that time, taught abstinence-only sex ed, but still ended up sexually active. This is the reality for most teens, Christian or not. This is why I truly believe it's important for kids to understand their options and know they have places like Planned Parenthood to help them get the information they need, when they need it. I'm not referring to abortions, but oral contraception and sex information in general. Regardless of your beliefs on abortion, family planning centers like Planned Parenthood are an incredibly valuable resource to the community for these reasons.

 

[Hathery]

Hathery, it all depends on what you believe....

I think that it depends on when you view the creation of 'life' ....if at the moment of conception, then yes, the pill MAY force an abortion. It doesn't, however, mean that an abortion did or did not happen -- no one could know if a fertilized egg was present. The egg, fertilized or not, would be lost thru the the flow of menstrual cycle.

If you believe that 'life' occurs when the fertilized egg is implanted in the womb, then the same would be true, since the pill will force a fertilized egg to be lost in the slough of the menstural cycle.

If you view 'life' as occuring at birth, then 'abortion' is a mute point.

I can't figure out a better way to explain it. I am Catholic and have taught many teens on the issue, so believe me when I say I have done my "homework". Catholic belief states that life begins at conception...and so ANYTHING you do to abort a fetus (pill or sugerically) is a sin. Since you wouldn't know if an egg was fertilized or not with the pill, they also consider that to be an unacceptable form of birth control....hence the "oh, you must be Catholic because you have 10 kids!" oh, I am sooooo just kidding there!!!

The Catholic Church supports the 'rhthym' method.

I, personally, preferred the pill. It was much more assuring.

Hmm, very interesting! Thanks for that information. My husband works for the WI department that regulates pharmaceutical licenses. they had a big to-do a few years back about a pharmacist that wouldn't dispense the BC pill to one of his clients, but he wouldn't refer her to another pharmacist either. It was a pretty big media circus. I never really understood what his conscientious objection was! I guess I understand now. He probably should have chosen another profession in retrospect, b/c oral contraception has to be one of the most common Rx's a pharmacist fills.

 

[Jessamary]

But if the egg isn't implanted, then is it a human being or just a joined cell?

I quoted the wrong thing. To the person who said contraception causes a fertilized egg to not attatch to the uterine wall...that's not true!

At least for the most common of contraception - the pill. The hormones in the pill cause your body to "think" it's pregnant by a rush of hormones. When those hormones are no longer there (think the week you don't take your pill or take the dummy pill), you get your period. On the pill, you don't ovulate, which is why you don't get pregnant. If you miss a dose or two, you can mess things up and actually ovulate, which is how some people get pregnant on the pill.

And, I know plenty of girls who kept taking the pill a few days or weeks after they were pregnant because they didn't know (or didn't want to admit it), and it does not do anything.

Now, as for the IUD, from what I hear it's different now. Back in the day, it was a copper IUD which irritated the uterine lining so a fertilized egg could not implant. But there were issues with this, and it was pulled off the market. There are new ones now, and I have to do a little research about how it works.

 

[jwpamp]

And like I said, with birth control pills or the MA pill, you don't know if there was a fertilized egg or not. That is why the Catholic Church believes that both pills are wrong. If you MAY cause an aborted fertilized egg, they view it as abortion.

And actually, you CAN release an egg while on birth control pills, that is why they don't promote it as "100% effective"....only 97% - 99% when taken as prescribed.

 

[Jessamary]

And like I said, with birth control pills or the MA pill, you don't know if there was a fertilized egg or not.

And actually, you CAN release an egg while on birth control pills, that is why they don't promote it as "100% effective"....only 97% - 99%.

Yup, and it's only 97-99% effective because an egg would be released, which would be fertilized.

Maybe we all need a refresher on contraception beyond abstinence.

 

[Hathery]

I thought the pill like thickened your cervical lining or something so that the egg couldn't attach? Or is that progesterin-only pills? (sorry, I don't know how to spell that!)

 

[Jessamary]

I thought the pill like thickened your cervical lining or something so that the egg couldn't attach? Or is that progesterin-only pills? (sorry, I don't know how to spell that!)

A mini-pill or progesterine only pill (I can't spell it either) can thicken the mucus around your cervix preventing sperm from entering.

edited to say: I did some fact checking, and on the mini pill, it can possibly thicken the uterine lining. Says nothing about combination pills. I can concede that point on that particular pill.

My poor husband...if there were any chance for him tonight, I believe it has since passed.

 

[jwpamp]

Oh, back to Obama -- my 18 year old son gets to vote for the first time in a very historic election, I am so happy for him!

My older son (27) is working on the Obama campaign in Indianapolis. Great to think that Obama could take Indiana away from the Republicans this time -- it's been a long time coming!

 

[Hathery]

Oh, back to Obama -- my 18 year old son gets to vote for the first time in a very historic election, I am so happy for him!

My older son (27) is working on the Obama campaign in Indianapolis. Great to think that Obama could take Indiana away from the Republicans this time -- it's been a long time coming!

What a historic election to introduce him to the voting process!

 

[Jessamary]

I agree. Very cool.

I plan on taking my daughter out (16 months) to do a little campaigning. Can you imagine being a baby back in the day and knowing your mom made you part of history?

Oh...and the best news! My husband (a poly-sci major once and hard core republican) says he doesn't think he can back McCain! The breaking point? Last night's SNL spoof on Palin's interview with Katie Couric. He said it wasn't too off the original interview.

 

[jwpamp]

That is too funny, Jessica! I missed the original interview and my hubby said the same thing.

Hey, Hathery, I can see you getting slammed on the other thread -- you best stay here and play with us for a while!

 

[DebbieSAChef]

So, I will put myself on the chopping block here and say something about my personal life. I have taken the morning after pill and I am not an unmarried woman or irresponsible heathen. A method of birth control broke (if you know what I mean) and we had had a baby only 6 months before. It was definitely NOT the time.

The morning after pill is not an abortion! Not any more so than the pill, and it burns me up when people say things like this. It's a scientific fact that the morning after pill will not abort a pregnancy. It's a dose of a hormone (levonorgestrel) found in birth control pills, only more of to prevent a pregnancy.

What you are probably thinking of is RU-486, which is the abortion pill, so to speak. Please make sure you know the difference.

I am a Christian and was raised such, so while researching the morning after pill, I looked at pharmaceutical web sites, as well as Christian ones. Here's one I found interesting.

The Abortion Pill and the Morning-After Pill: Are They the Same?

First I sense some hostility in your message and want to say that no one called you a heathen or thinks ill of you for doing that. It's between you and God. I don't agree with it and if our condom broke or whatever, my hubby and I would say "Let's pray and see if this is what God wants." Ours has broken a few times but nothing happened because it was not the Lord's will at the time.

Ok now back to your post, it all depends on where you get your information.
Morning-After Pill, Pro-Life America's Experts & Celebrities on abortion, dating, sex, love and life. Free Video, Free Audio, Free Catalogs. Chastity experts. Celebs, speakers and literature to help save moms and babies from abortion. Benefits of sav
The morning after pill is a very high dose of the birth control pill. It is repackaged and given to women within 72 hours of unprotected sex at a rate of $25-35 a pop. I have gotten several doses in my pre-born again days while I was enjoying my fornication.
The pill causes the fertilized egg to be thrown out of the body. So it is in a hostile environment within the women's body and eventually is disposed of. That is pretty close to an abortion. Don't you think?
Anyway to answer another post, I am against abortion and also I am against birth control or depo provera which I did use at one time. The birth control made me fat and unhappy. The depo made me unfertile for 18 months after I stopped taking it. I don't want any poisons in my body, so I stick to condoms.
I do have the baby bug again so we are praying and talking about possibly bringing baby #6 into the world.
Debbie

 

[DebbieSAChef]

But if the egg isn't implanted, then is it a human being or just a joined cell?

When sperm meets egg, it is fertilized and I believe that is when life begins. It will eventually implant itself and start to live off of mom.
I love Horton's saying:
A person's a person no matter how small.

Debbie

 

[DebbieSAChef]

I took the MA pill too, when I was about 17 yrs old. I took it because something "broke" as well, and I wasn't on the birth control pill at the time. I wasn't on the pill because I was afraid to tell my parents I was sexually active. The point I'm making is...as important as it is to have a good dialogue with your kids on this subject, not all kids are going to be comfortable coming to their parents with this information. I was a strong Christian at that time, taught abstinence-only sex ed, but still ended up sexually active. This is the reality for most teens, Christian or not. This is why I truly believe it's important for kids to understand their options and know they have places like Planned Parenthood to help them get the information they need, when they need it. I'm not referring to abortions, but oral contraception and sex information in general. Regardless of your beliefs on abortion, family planning centers like Planned Parenthood are an incredibly valuable resource to the community for these reasons.

Ooooh I have to disagree with this. I am instilling the fear of God in my children as best as I can with the Lord's help and the word of God. If they do not fear God they will fall into all kinds of sin. If I tell my children "The Lord tells us not to fornicate, it is an abomination before God and sin. Marriage is the only time sex is permitted." They better listen. Places like planned parenthood are evil and giving girls information on how to break God's laws. If a teenage girl came to me at church and told me "Look I am going to have sex no matter what you say, can you take me to get birth control, condoms, etc..."
I would break out the word of God and rebuke her. I would tell her that her parent's would be so horrified and that I will not help her sin. These places like planned parenthood are helping kids sin, and keeping it from their parents. I would pray with her and for her but I would not help her break God's laws. There is no fear of God in this world, that is why there is so much sin that is readily accepted. If you were saved at that time I hope you realized your sin and repented and asked God for forgiveness. I am not saying you didn't but I hope you will warn your children of your mistakes and sin. Not excusing them if they should do the same. I pray the Lord will radically save my children and once they are born again I know the Holy Spirit will give them power over sin.

Debbie :chef:

 

[Jessamary]

First I sense some hostility in your message and want to say that no one called you a heathen or thinks ill of you for doing that.

I didn't think anybody was, just pointing out that nice, Christian women who waited for their husbands to have sex have taken the morning after pill.

The pill causes the fertilized egg to be thrown out of the body.

Wow. According to YOUR OWN ARTICLE, that's only one of the ways. Let's not sensationalize things, shall we?

Edited to say: Your article is from 1999 from a Canadian author. Lots have been done in science in 9 years, and the Candian FDA (or whatever they call it) is very different than the USA FDA. The author of the article lives in Alberta somewhere. Look up facts on Plan B, if you want to actually know the facts.

So it is in a hostile environment within the women's body and eventually is disposed of. That is pretty close to an abortion. Don't you think?

Debbie, with your reasoning, the birth control pill, which the morning after pill is just a mega dose of, is also having an abortion. You admitted to taking the pill.

I have the baby bug from time to time, too, but if I had a fourth, it would cause a lot of problems. I'm not just talking inconvenience and financially. Most likely, I would have to be on bedrest again, for who knows how long, and I have three kids to take care of. When my 2nd was born, I lost so much blood, I passed out for 2 hours. As my husband was leaving the OR (emergency C-Section), 4 more surgeons rushed in. I lost half my total blood volume. With my third, I was on bedrest for 8 weeks, had placenta previa, vanishing twin, and when my daughter was born 3 weeks early, only scored a 2 on her first two APGARS. I'm quite certain that God does not want to leave my husband a widower with four small children. I will be on BC until my husband or myself takes measures to have permanent birth control done.

I don't believe abortion is the right thing, by any standards. However, I am not going to support anything that imposes my own personal convictions and beliefs upon another person. That's what's so great about this country...we're all different.

I respect your opinions, but I think you know I do not agree with most of what you posted here.

 

[chefsteph07]

Jess, I think it was very brave of you to come out and share your story, so thank you for that.

As somone who belongs on the "other" thread, I have been reading this and find it very interesting that this is supposed to be about OBAMA and it has morphed into an abortion issue.

Those of you who have the "baby bug" might want to consider adopting some of those babies who you want to live rather than be aborted.

I'd like to know how many on this board have done that. I think it's also interesting to spout your views on the subject while waiting for "someone else" to adopt them.

And, I'm not talking about Chinese babies, Vietnamese babies, etc. I am talking about American babies of the young scared girls who wound up pregnant.

 

[jwpamp]

I don't believe abortion is the right thing, by any standards. However, I am not going to support anything that imposes my own personal convictions and beliefs upon another person. That's what's so great about this country...we're all different.

I respect your opinions, but I think you know I do not agree with most of what you posted here.

Thank you, Jess! Well written and just to let you know, I firmly agree!

Now, I think we can all agree that there are OTHER issues we can and should address here. In my opinion, we are being moved off track by only one of the issues.

It's a free country...and we are being given a forum in which we can express our views, but don't have the right to criiticize others for theirs.

I say we state our beliefs if you need, then move on.

Remembering that it is a pro-Obama thread, I take it that if you are signing on here to post, you are pro-Obama, and we thank you for your support.

If not, there are a multitude of other threads for you to post on.

 

[chefsteph07]

Thank you, Jess! Well written and just to let you know, I firmly agree!

Now, I think we can all agree that there are OTHER issues we can and should address here. In my opinion, we are being moved off track by only one of the issues.

It's a free country...and we are being given a forum in which we can express our views, but don't have the right to criiticize others for theirs.

I say we state our beliefs if you need, then move on.

Remembering that it is a pro-Obama thread, I take it that if you are signing on here to post, you are pro-Obama, and we thank you for your support.

If not, there are a multitude of other threads for you to post on.

Just like everyone who posted on the pro McCain thread was PRO MCCAIN?

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Oh Rhonda, I'm not angry about the "illegal" issue, just wondering what "illegals" you are talking about.

I think a good hearted discussion is helpful in decision making, but there is no reason to interject when there is no change to be made in another's decision.

This is a good place for pro-Obama people to share thoughts, and so as I said in the other thread (and so sorry to re-post), I will play in my yard and you can play in yours.

All is good!

In my original post I was mostly referring to Hispanic illegals - although I am against anyone who comes to our country illegally. I have wonderful friends who our Hispanic. I know they just want a better life for their family. My heart goes out to them, but I also have to think about my family and the life my children will have in the future. My ancestors came to this country legally so they could give their families a better life. They should do the same.

I'm actually still trying to make my decision. I actually did want to vote for Obama at first, although the more I hear from McCain the more I am leaning toward voting for him. I was actually raised Democrat so it's a change for me. So right now I guess I don't really have my own playground!

I didn't even get into the political issue on the other threads because so many people get upset. It's also very hard to convey over writing the tone of your voice or what you really mean. I'm also always on a time table.

 

[Geekgirl69]

Just like everyone who posted on the pro McCain thread was PRO MCCAIN?

I didn't post any opinions on any of the political threads but read 99% of them. I wouldn't say the other thread was "pro McCain" I would say it was more "anti-Obama" with many bashing comments posted in general.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Jess, I think it was very brave of you to come out and share your story, so thank you for that.

As somone who belongs on the "other" thread, I have been reading this and find it very interesting that this is supposed to be about OBAMA and it has morphed into an abortion issue.

Those of you who have the "baby bug" might want to consider adopting some of those babies who you want to live rather than be aborted.

I'd like to know how many on this board have done that. I think it's also interesting to spout your views on the subject while waiting for "someone else" to adopt them.

And, I'm not talking about Chinese babies, Vietnamese babies, etc. I am talking about American babies of the young scared girls who wound up pregnant.

This is another issue that is not so easily cut and dry. I have several friends who wanted to adopt from the US. How sad they were told they were too old. They did adopt one child from China and one from Russia - for a pretty penny I might add. The foreign countries only allow it so they can make money from it.

I also have a friend who adopted two babies in the US. They do not make that easy or affordable for most either. The birth mother of my friends first child made huge demands on them. She wanted all her medical paid for, free meals at expensive restaurants, maternity clothing, make-up, etc. She would call them up at the last minute and ask them to take her to dinner. All this and she had 30 days to change her mind after the baby was born!

My husband and I discussed the issue of possibly not being able to have children before we were married. We decided if we couldn't have our own we would not try fertility procedures, we would become foster parents. This was not in God's plan for us though since we were able to have our own. If our health continues we have considered becoming foster parents when our children are out of the house. We wouldn't be approved as foster parents now since our house is too small.

 

[Hathery]

That is too funny, Jessica! I missed the original interview and my hubby said the same thing.

Hey, Hathery, I can see you getting slammed on the other thread -- you best stay here and play with us for a while!

I've already been told to leave the country in the other thread, so I don't know what else could possibly be said to me! haha.

 

[Hathery]

Ooooh I have to disagree with this. I am instilling the fear of God in my children as best as I can with the Lord's help and the word of God. If they do not fear God they will fall into all kinds of sin. If I tell my children "The Lord tells us not to fornicate, it is an abomination before God and sin. Marriage is the only time sex is permitted." They better listen. Places like planned parenthood are evil and giving girls information on how to break God's laws. If a teenage girl came to me at church and told me "Look I am going to have sex no matter what you say, can you take me to get birth control, condoms, etc..."
I would break out the word of God and rebuke her. I would tell her that her parent's would be so horrified and that I will not help her sin. These places like planned parenthood are helping kids sin, and keeping it from their parents. I would pray with her and for her but I would not help her break God's laws. There is no fear of God in this world, that is why there is so much sin that is readily accepted. If you were saved at that time I hope you realized your sin and repented and asked God for forgiveness. I am not saying you didn't but I hope you will warn your children of your mistakes and sin. Not excusing them if they should do the same. I pray the Lord will radically save my children and once they are born again I know the Holy Spirit will give them power over sin.

Debbie :chef:

No, I didn't repent. I married the man and we've had a wonderful marriage for almost 5 years now. I don't regret a thing; if God can't appreciate the love I have for my husband (whether in or out of "wedlock"), then he and I aren't on the same page.

 

[chefsteph07]

I guess my point on this abortion issue is that we are ALL sinners. I really take offense to women being called "murderers", "baby killers" and the like. That is an extremist viewpoint if you ask me. Everyone needs to take a good long look in the mirror and account for our OWN sins before casting on others. I'm sure we ALL have done things that we might not be proud of in the past...

If you can't adopt an American baby, do some volunteer work or volunteer counseling at one of these Planned Parenthood places or at a clinic since you all feel so strongly about it.

I honestly do not think that Roe V Wade will EVER be overturned. I think the whole discussion is pointless unless you actually are DOING something about it, not just calling someone horrible names (HATE names) and generalizing everything.

 

[Hathery]

Just like everyone who posted on the pro McCain thread was PRO MCCAIN?

Actually, it was an "anti-Obama" thread. There's a big difference.

 

[chefsteph07]

I didn't post any opinions on any of the political threads but read 99% of them. I wouldn't say the other thread was "pro McCain" I would say it was more "anti-Obama" with many bashing comments posted in general.

I disagree, I think alot, if not all, of it has been pro McCain.

 

[Hathery]

I guess my point on this abortion issue is that we are ALL sinners. I really take offense to women being called "murderers", "baby killers" and the like. That is an extremist viewpoint if you ask me. Everyone needs to take a good long look in the mirror and account for our OWN sins before casting on others. I'm sure we ALL have done things that we might not be proud of in the past...

If you can't adopt an American baby, do some volunteer work or volunteer counseling at one of these Planned Parenthood places or at a clinic since you all feel so strongly about it.

I honestly do not think that Roe V Wade will EVER be overturned. I think the whole discussion is pointless unless you actually are DOING something about it, not just calling someone horrible names (HATE names) and generalizing everything.

The pro-lifers are the ones who should be adopting and volunteering at these places. They're the ones who wanted to make sure all children, whether wanted or unwanted, able to be cared for or not, should be born. I believe children should be born to those who want them and can afford to take care of them. Just because we CAN breed doesn't mean we should.

 

[Hathery]

I disagree, I think alot, if not all, of it has been pro McCain.

The name of the thread is "What scared me about Obama" or "What scares me about Obama in debate."

 

[chefsteph07]

The name of the thread is "What scared me about Obama" or "What scares me about Obama in debate."

With some good points about why to vote for McCain in the process.

 

[chefsteph07]

The pro-lifers are the ones who should be adopting and volunteering at these places. They're the ones who wanted to make sure all children, whether wanted or unwanted, able to be cared for or not, should be born. I believe children should be born to those who want them and can afford to take care of them. Just because we CAN breed doesn't mean we should.

Yes, I agree completely, and that is my point...
Instead of calling women murderers and baby killers, go to these clinics and counsel the girls and adopt the babies.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

I still say those of you who are pro-choice. Educate yourself on what really happens during an abortion. I really don't like to go into the facts here, but they have proven babies in the womb can feel pain. How do you think it feels for them to be sucked out into a tube? Or how about partial birth abortions where the baby is birthed just until every part of the body is out but his/her head and then the Dr. cuts their spinal cord. If this does not kill the baby they suck the brain out with a tube.

I am not a radical or idealest who thinks people aren't going to have sex. I know the numbers - over 50% of teens are having sex these days. I've had the discussion w/my children. Not only about how they can become pregnant, but the STD's they can get. I have shown them pictures of these STD's. It was pretty shocking for them, but they had to know the facts.

I do believe the morning after pill should be allowed. Many women are raped and this is an option for them. It saddens me people use it as a means of birth control, but it is much better then letting the baby grow to the point of a heart beat and feeling of pain and then kill him/her.

I don't think Planned Parenthood is completely evil and they do serve a very important purpose, but I think that purpose should be birth control not abortions.

 

[Hathery]

Yes, I agree completely, and that is my point...
Instead of calling women murderers and baby killers, go to these clinics and counsel the girls and adopt the babies.

Oh, okay! Sorry, I missed your point. I agree with you then

 

[Hathery]

I still say those of you who are pro-choice. Educate yourself on what really happens during an abortion. I really don't like to go into the facts here, but they have proven babies in the womb can feel pain. How do you think it feels for them to be sucked out into a tube? Or how about partial birth abortions where the baby is birthed just until every part of the body is out but his/her head and then the Dr. cuts their spinal cord. If this does not kill the baby they suck the brain out with a tube.

I am not a radical or idealest who thinks people aren't going to have sex. I know the numbers - over 50% of teens are having sex these days. I've had the discussion w/my children. Not only about how they can become pregnant, but the STD's they can get. I have shown them pictures of these STD's. It was pretty shocking for them, but they had to know the facts.

I do believe the morning after pill should be allowed. Many women are raped and this is an option for them. It saddens me people use it as a means of birth control, but it is much better then letting the baby grow to the point of a heart beat and feeling of pain and then kill him/her.

I don't think Planned Parenthood is completely evil and they do serve a very important purpose, but I think that purpose should be birth control not abortions.

I agree with you 100%. As Bill Clinton said, "Abortions should be safe and rare." We need to focus more on proper sex-ed in this country to prevent abortions from ever being needed.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Yes, I agree completely, and that is my point...
Instead of calling women murderers and baby killers, go to these clinics and counsel the girls and adopt the babies.

Actually the Catholic Church does support pregnant women. They give free pregnancy testing, free ultra sounds, free health care, free clothing, cribs, diapers, etc. Even if you don't personally volunteer to work you are involved with donations.

I have a very good friend who works at one of the clinics. A young women came in to the clinic she was actually looking for the abortion clinic - this clinic was set up right next door. They talked with her about her decision, about her feers, etc. and eventually gave her a free ultra sound so she could see her baby. She chose not to have an abortion. This is just one of many stoires I could tell you.

In my opinion many abortion clinics are just in it for the money. Here in Indiana they wanted to pass a law to give the women information about what would happen during the procedure - just like any other medical procedure - and then wait 48 hours before actually having the abortion. Pro-Choice people were so against it. I don't understand why. She should know all the facts before making her decision. She will have to live with it the rest of her life.

This is the information she is given at the Free Catholic Clinic. She is also given hope. Many women make the decision so quickly because they just want the "problem" to go away. They don't think they have any other options.

 

[janetupnorth]

The name of the thread is "What scared me about Obama" or "What scares me about Obama in debate."

Wait a minute - back up about a week BEFORE you showed up. It started out as what McCain picks Palin and there was so much about what "scared people about Palin" that the What scares me about Obama was started because someone asked a direct question about it.

Read all the way back before you make those assumptions.

The conservative side was very polite and we had GREAT back and forth discussions on the issues until you and others started the attacks.

I remember my first conversation with you, you made some very strong assumptions and accusations about me.

So don't bash the conservative side AGAIN. Stick with discussing the main point at hand.