Obama Is Not Pro Life and He Wants Taxpayers to Pay for Abortions

[Shawnna]

I have to agree with Janet on the abortion issue. Rape and incest are wrong, but that does not justify the murder of an unborn child. There would be a lot of issues to work through during that pregnancy, but an abortion would just add another issue to deal with. That child didn't choose how he/she was conceived. If after the baby was born the mom didn't want it, there would be hundreds of other couples waiting in line to take him/her as their own.

Here is somethings for you to think about:
It is my understanding that partial birth abortion is: At the time of delivery when the baby's head is out the doctor sticks something into it's head and it dies. Is this true? If so, here is my question...If a women is in the process of giving birth to a "wanted" baby and I run into the delivery room and stick something into it's head...how is that different? Its only different if the mom wants the baby?

If I am pregnant and a drunk driver crosses the line and runs into my car and my baby is killed...why is that driver charged with murder if that baby isn't really a baby yet?

My point is that either the unborn child is a baby or its not. It can't be both depending on the circumstances.

Abortion is a very important issue. Abortion destroys lives.

And, why is it that I have to sign a release for my child to get tylonal at school, but the nurse can give her condoms or take her for birth control pills?

 

[fikibiff]

JAE - even though you are sharing the "facts" , the problem is that many of them are only part of the story. Take this for example, from your post:

Obama, throughout his political career has consistently supported abortion rights. He opposed legislation to protect babies born alive during abortions, and he misrepresents himself on this issue. But, you will never hear this from the media. Even Hillary Clinton voted for a federal Born Alive Infants Protection Act that was pretty much the same as the one Obama voted against in Illinois.

He did oppose that legislating, but there was already a law protecting live births from attempted abortions. He didn't vote for it because of other things that were included in the bill. The bill passing or failing didn't effect the babies born alive.

Either side, dems or reps, could go through every vote on legislation and find things that made their candidate look like a double talker. Only part of the information is revealed. We never get the whole story, on anything.

 

[JAE]

JAE - even though you are sharing the "facts" , the problem is that many of them are only part of the story. Take this for example, from your post:

Obama, throughout his political career has consistently supported abortion rights. He opposed legislation to protect babies born alive during abortions, and he misrepresents himself on this issue. But, you will never hear this from the media. Even Hillary Clinton voted for a federal Born Alive Infants Protection Act that was pretty much the same as the one Obama voted against in Illinois.

He did oppose that legislating, but there was already a law protecting live births from attempted abortions. He didn't vote for it because of other things that were included in the bill. The bill passing or failing didn't effect the babies born alive.

Either side, dems or reps, could go through every vote on legislation and find things that made their candidate look like a double talker. Only part of the information is revealed. We never get the whole story, on anything.

See post #50 for more info.

 

[PamperedCaniac]

Ok.... I am not a fan of Obama but I am not a fan of Howard Stern at all! Just curious if you guys heard this and who is also voting for Obama
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=194983

 

[gingertannery]

I am hijacking this strand just for a moment.. Please listen to this ... it explains how Clinton is responsible for the fall of Fannie and Freddie and Obama is too. The other strand is not being looked at.. So Sorry... then back to the thread message..



WATCH IT BEFORE THE DEMS FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET IT OFF THE AIR!

<>

This video is still up. It is a Univ of Alabama blog.

I strongly suggest you watch it quickly



One remaining video about FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC you won't see on CBS, ABC, NBC OR CNN.



Tider Insider Forums

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I've been in a "heated" discussion about this on CS, and don't wish to start again. Just wanted to point out that the MSM...you know, the one that you all think is the devil in newsprint...is the source for a lot of the mud-slinging and facts. It's great how it's the MSM/devil when it doesn't support your side, but is absolute truth when it does.

You make me giggle...

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I'm pretty sure TIME Magazine is main-stream.
Yes, JAE, poops. You know, everyone poops. Even you. But apparently yours doesn't stink.

Sometimes I poop corn!

Once I even pooped a pea! Yup... there it was in all it's green splendor...

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I've kept quiet here, and probably should keep quiet, but I just have to post this... And of course, this is all just my opinion.

What bugs me, is that when someone has a misscarriage, you'll never hear someone say, well, it wasn't a human, it didn't have it's own "life", why are you so upset. Everyone understands the loss to that woman. But when the baby isn't wanted, then it is no big deal to kill it.

So basically, if a baby is wanted, then it has a life and is valuable. But if it is not wanted, then "life" hasn't started yet, it has no rights, and it is OK to kill. Because if it is not convenient to the mother we should let her get rid of it, because hey, her rights ARE important...

I'd like to see a pro-choice person try to tell a women who has mis-carried that it is no big deal. And if you can't say that a miscarriage is not a loss, then how can you justify aborting other babies, I don't care how early in the pregnancy.

BTW, I am not saying that abortion is not very occasionally justified if continuing the pregnancy will risk the mother's life. I just hate the use of it fro when pregnancy is an inconvenience.

And I am totally for more crisis pregnancy services, more birth control and abstinence teaching, and improved adoption services. I cannot imagine how scary it must be to find out at 15 you're pregnant, and have to tell your parents and deal with the consequences. BUT, being hard doesn't make it OK to choose an option that takes a babies life. Let's try to support and care for the girls (and women) who are facing unplanned pregnancies.

Anniebee- this was a very beautiful post. You gave me tears in my eyes! (see the bolded section as to why)

 

[Kitchen Diva]

Ok.... I am not a fan of Obama but I am not a fan of Howard Stern at all! Just curious if you guys heard this and who is also voting for Obama
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=194983

I don't know if that should scare me, or anger me, or shock me, or what...!?!?!

 

[Shawnna]

I can't stand Howard Stern, but this was pretty interesting.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I'm not going to start it. You start it! Are you a scaredy cat?

No, not afraid...just don't know where to begin!...KWIM???

 

[JAE]

No, not afraid...just don't know where to begin!...KWIM???

I'm this close to starting a new thread, but I really don't have time, this morning or today. For now I'll post on the thread about how people should be afraid if Obama gets elected.

But, everyone needs to go to the following webpage and see how many babies have died each year since 1973. On the left side of the page is a breakdown by year. Take note that some years do not even include abortions in places like California.

If you are voting for Obama because you want the killing to end in Iraq, think twice about what you're doing. Abortion rates will only go up and up and up if Obama is elected. Contrast the abortion death toll to the Iraq death toll at the next link (which I really didn't research, but it's an anti war website, so I doubt the figures are lower than reality).

Don't get me wrong. War is not good. People dying in the war is not good. But look at the difference between how many deaths occur because of abortion compared to because of war. Why don't we fight for the unborn as much or more than we fight for the war to end?!

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html

Casualties in Iraq - 2008

 

[princessmeshelle]

all i'm going to add to this conversation is that Obama TERRIFIES ME! i personally am not impressed with him. and the idea that signing that POS bill at any point in his presidency sickens me. these are just my opinions, i am not sure how far off topic things have gone, i only read the first and last page, so forgive me if i'm ruining the flow.

 

[Kitchen Diva]

all i'm going to add to this conversation is that Obama TERRIFIES ME! i personally am not impressed with him. and the idea that signing that POS bill at any point in his presidency sickens me. these are just my opinions, i am not sure how far off topic things have gone, i only read the first and last page, so forgive me if i'm ruining the flow.

What is the POS bill? Sorry- I'm loopy on back medicine... and don't worry about the flow- we go all over the place in our threads!

 

[princessmeshelle]

What is the POS bill? Sorry- I'm loopy on back medicine... and don't worry about the flow- we go all over the place in our threads!

um, Peice of Something unpleasant... sorry, i couldn't remember Freedom of Choice Act.
i was refering to the FOCA as that POS bill. did i make sense?

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I know I can't wait for Jesse Jackson and other radical friends of Obama to be running our country. How about you, JAE? Janet? Anyone else?

 

[Kitchen Diva]

um, Peice of Something unpleasant... sorry, i couldn't remember Freedom of Choice Act.
i was refering to the FOCA as that POS bill. did i make sense?

Okay, gotchya! I was thinking piece of poop... lol!

 

[janetupnorth]

Okay, gotchya! I was thinking piece of poop... lol!

She meant that...kind of...

Spoiler

...and I don't know what would ever bring that topic to mind in the last 24 hours!

 

[PamperedCaniac]

I can't stand Howard Stern, but this was pretty interesting.

Same here... Can not stand to hear him so I was very leary when I first saw this... How ever I found it interesting too! Just scarey who supports people (not just Obama) in this world and have no clue what they stand for and actually are supporting the opposite person.

 

[jenne]

As far as the abortion in cases of rape or incest...there is a book out there called "Victims to Victors" or something along those lines about women and their children born under these circumstances. I have been trying to find it at my local library, but surprise surprise, it's not there...(maybe I'll donate it)...anyhow, I've volunteered at a local crisis pregnancy center and have done a lot of reading, and there is a lot of information out there about how abortion in these situations just compounds the issue. The mother has been victimized once, why victimize her again with an abortion? And in the case of incest? What more would the guilty relative want than for the injustice that they've done to a girl be covered up by abortion so they can continue on victimizing her and keep it a secret? If a pregnancy is carried out, the criminal is caught, and hopefully prosecuted so the poor girl can then seek some healing...

 

[Kitchen Diva]

She meant that...kind of...

Spoiler

...and I don't know what would ever bring that topic to mind in the last 24 hours!

Really?!?!

 

[janetupnorth]

As far as the abortion in cases of rape or incest...there is a book out there called "Victims to Victors" or something along those lines about women and their children born under these circumstances. I have been trying to find it at my local library, but surprise surprise, it's not there...(maybe I'll donate it)...anyhow, I've volunteered at a local crisis pregnancy center and have done a lot of reading, and there is a lot of information out there about how abortion in these situations just compounds the issue. The mother has been victimized once, why victimize her again with an abortion? And in the case of incest? What more would the guilty relative want than for the injustice that they've done to a girl be covered up by abortion so they can continue on victimizing her and keep it a secret? If a pregnancy is carried out, the criminal is caught, and hopefully prosecuted so the poor girl can then seek some healing...

Is this the book?
Victims and Victors:Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault

 

[jenne]

Is this the book?
Victims and Victors:Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault

That's the one...Thanks!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I really don't want to get involved in a heated back and forth, but I was once told that besides basing your voting decisions on moral ethics, it all comes down to lining your wallet. Yes we are in bad times in a lot of areas, but I myself don't want to answer to my being swayed by financial decisions when I vote rather than follow what I feel to be more important issues. Things probably won't change because of my vote, but I can stand before God with my conscience clear.Just my lowly 2 cents.

That is exactly how I feel. No matter what the economy is, or where there is war, or what is happening with the environment, or whether or not Roe v Wade is upheld or overturned - I answer to God first. I MUST vote according to how I interpret how His law applies to today.

Galatians 1:10 -

Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[gingertannery]

:angel::angel::angel: OK.. I have an answer. hopefully. Please spread the news.. My cousin in California sent this to me via e-mail. What a great idea. Let's all pray together -in doing so can make a greater impact... and ask God to help us in our cause!! I don't know about you.. but I feel defenseless against our future.. I know one vote may not make a difference.. especially as everyone is not thinking correctly and supporting Obama in his lies and evilness. So what do you think?? Please tell everyone you know.. copy and send to friends.. talk about it in church. We can make a difference with God's help!! My time to pray is 8:00 (central) Please join me!!:angel::angel::angel:

The e-mail as sent by my cousin Beth:

:love::love:thumbup:
Will you join me in prayer? I'm believing your answer is YES.
Thanks,
Beth


> ONE MINUTE EACH NIGHT
>
> This is the scariest election we as Christians have ever
> faced, and from the looks of the polls,
> the Christians aren't voting Christian values. We all
> need to be on our knees.
>
> Do
> you believe we can take God at His word? Call upon His
> name, then stand
> back and watch His wonders unfold. This scripture gives us,
> as
> Christians, ownership of this land and the ability to
> call upon God to heal it. I challenge you to do that. We
> have never been more desperate
> than now for God to heal our land.
>
> This
> election is the scariest I remember in my lifetime. 2
> Chronicles 7:14.
> 'If my people, which are called by my name shall humble
> themselves, and
> pray, and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways,
> then will I
> hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal
> their
> land.'
>
> During
> WWII, there was an advisor to Churchill, who organized a
> group of
> people who dropped what they were doing every night at a
> prescribed
> hour for one minute, to collectively pray for the safety of
> England,
> its people and peace. This had an amazing effect, as
> bombing stopped.
> There is now a group of people organizing the same thing
> here in America.
>
> The
> United States of America, and our citizens, need prayer
> more than
> ever!!! If you would like to participate, each evening at
> 9:00 P.M.
> Eastern Time (8 PM Central, 7 PM Mountain, 6 PM Pacific),
> stop whatever
> you're doing, and spend one minute praying for the
> safety of the United
> States, our troops, our citizens, for peace in the world,
> the upcoming
> election, that the Bible will remain the basis for the laws
> governing
> our land, and that Christianity will grow in the U.S.
>
> If
> you know anyone who would like to participate, please pass
> this along.
> Someone said if people really understood the full extent
> of the power
> we have available through prayer, we might be speechless.
> Our prayers
> are the most powerful asset we have. Thank you.
> Please pass this on to anyone who you think will want to
> join us.
>
> God Bless You!!!

 

[chefmeg]

I am in! I will start tonight!

 

[Kitchen Diva]

I am in! I will start tonight!

I've been praying for this nation and our elected officials for a while now. I do feel that this is a huge election this year, but we need to keep one thing in mind... it's only for 4 years... and if it doesn't go the way we'd like- we can always move to Canada. LOL I'd like to be able to visit Rennea anyway!


I agree we need to HUMBLE ourselves and profess to God that we have NOT been following His commands to love one another, and to stand up for what is just, right and true... we must ask His forgiveness and pray that He'll move mightily. I have a prayer that you all can pray, but it's at home. Send me a PM to remind me to type it up for everyone tonight...

Pray like you've never prayed, because I truly believe their is a veil of deceit that Satan has placed over millions!

Even my grandfather, who admits he's voting for Obama says that Obama's following is eerily like those that followed Hitler-(and my grandfather has studied EVERYTHING about Hitler- he has a library in his basement, with a many a book on Hitler) However my grandfather despises President Bush, so he won't vote for McCain. But he said that he has noticed that the people that are supporting Obama are for him and many don't really know why... he stated that it's almost occult like.

I'm just sharing an observation from my grandfather...it is merely the opinion of a seasoned citizen... Who I love.
(I don't have spell check here at work, so please forgive any spelling errors)

 

[Hathery]

This article is for anyone who is undecided about who you will vote for in November.

I am not a one issue voter. But the MSM won't report the truth about Obama. I don't pretend to think that people who are already supporting Obama will change their minds about him because of this thread. But, I think people who are still on the fence need to get the whole truth. You may argue with me if you want, but it would be better if you just post some facts or a place for us to go to research them for ourselves.

Obama is not truthful when he says he will promote "abortion reduction" policies. In fact, his policies or just the opposite.

I don't think that the MSM "won't report the truth." I think that this issue just isn't relevant to most voters. It is indeed an important issue, but it's not the most pressing issue to the majority of voters...right now people are worried about whether or not their jobs will be sent overseas, if they will be able to afford their mortgage, if their son or daughter will die in an unjust war...they really aren't that concerned with whether or not the teenager down the street is going to have an abortion. We just have so many things more important than this to think about, given that protesting abortion has proven to be an exercise in futility since the inception of Roe v. Wade.

 

[janetupnorth]

I don't think that the MSM "won't report the truth." I think that this issue just isn't relevant to most voters. It is indeed an important issue, but it's not the most pressing issue to the majority of voters...right now people are worried about whether or not their jobs will be sent overseas, if they will be able to afford their mortgage, if their son or daughter will die in an unjust war...they really aren't that concerned with whether or not the teenager down the street is going to have an abortion. We just have so many things more important than this to think about, given that protesting abortion has proven to be an exercise in futility since the inception of Roe v. Wade.

I think you're wrong. I think it is all spin. Obama and others would LOVE to see this be a non-issue and try to get you to focus on other things and being "anti-Bush". It's easy to catapult off the supposed bad to get your support than really stand on the issues.

I can't believe you are classifying HUMAN LIFE as less important than money.

My 7 year old values human life more than your words do - THAT scares me! That makes it more of an issue to me personally that we are teaching our younger generations to throw this out as "another issues" because there are "more important" things to worry about.

 

[BethCooks4U]

Obama is not the devil nor is he the anti-Christ. I am appauled that so many are even going there. It shows desperation. Sad, really sad, that someone has to be crucified in such a vile way to try to get your own side elected. All this "Christian" talk mixed with this character assassination and stretching of a thread of truth into such blatent lies and scare tactics would be almost comical if it wasn't so sad. This kind of talk is what's scaring me. I thought this country was beyond this kind of lynching.

I am praying for you all. And for peace in our country. This kind of talk will only incite racial discontent. Shame.


Onto the subject of the thread: Obama is not pro-abortion he is pro-choice and has said that he wants to work toward cutting down on the number of abortions. He voted against the bill that you guys like to cite because that bill wasn't going to do anything to change things and because there was already a law protecting those babies on the Illinois books.

 

[Hathery]

I think you're wrong. I think it is all spin. Obama and others would LOVE to see this be a non-issue and try to get you to focus on other things and being "anti-Bush". It's easy to catapult off the supposed bad to get your support than really stand on the issues.

I can't believe you are classifying HUMAN LIFE as less important than money.

My 7 year old values human life more than your words do - THAT scares me! That makes it more of an issue to me personally that we are teaching our younger generations to throw this out as "another issues" because there are "more important" things to worry about.

I value educating people on how to make correct, preventative decisions so that it never gets to the point where an abortion is necessary. I think arguing abortion is putting the cart before the horse; we need to look at the root of the problem.

I really don't think it's "spin." I, in my personal life, have much more pressing issues to deal with than abortion. I'm sure I"m not alone. I'd be very upset if the candidates chose to focus on so-called "moral" issues rather than issues that actually affect my daily life.

 

[gingertannery]

Obama is not the devil nor is he the anti-Christ. I am appauled that so many are even going there. It shows desperation. Sad, really sad, that someone has to be crucified in such a vile way to try to get your own side elected. All this "Christian" talk mixed with this character assassination and stretching of a thread of truth into such blatent lies and scare tactics would be almost comical if it wasn't so sad. This kind of talk is what's scaring me. I thought this country was beyond this kind of lynching.

I am praying for you all. And for peace in our country. This kind of talk will only incite racial discontent. Shame.


Onto the subject of the thread: Obama is not pro-abortion he is pro-choice and has said that he wants to work toward cutting down on the number of abortions. He voted against the bill that you guys like to cite because that bill wasn't going to do anything to change things and because there was already a law protecting those babies on the Illinois books.

Please explain... pro-choice is pro abortion
If you choose pro-choice.. you are choosing abortion. OMG!!!! Or is it not sex.. because it is oral.. like Clintoin said?? Oh.. I get it now.. funny me.. LOL Brush that one under the rug!!
I choose to stand for the right of every living creature even if it is in your body... you terminate a pregnancy (does that make you more comfortable because I sugar coated it) yes terminate a pregnancy.. and it is ok?? No, not in God's eyes any way you look at it. What do you think the baby has to say about it?? If you don't terminate the pregancy (more sugar) then the baby is born and grows up to be an adult to make their own decisions. Terminating it KILLS it. No way around that one. And yes.. Obama would love all of to forget about this little subject. This IS my bottom line.. I don't vote for anyone who is for killing unborn babies.. even if they want to kill less. Come on people WAKE up. Listen to what you are saying.. Obama is for killing babies.. ok I'll give you less babies.

 

[Hathery]

Please explain... pro-choice is pro abortion
If you choose pro-choice.. you are choosing abortion. OMG!!!! Or is it not sex.. because it is oral.. like Clintoin said?? Oh.. I get it now.. funny me.. LOL Brush that one under the rug!!
I choose to stand for the right of every living creature even if it is in your body... you terminate a pregnancy (does that make you more comfortable because I sugar coated it) yes terminate a pregnancy.. and it is ok?? No, not in God's eyes any way you look at it. What do you think the baby has to say about it?? If you don't terminate the pregancy (more sugar) then the baby is born and grows up to be an adult to make their own decisions. Terminating it KILLS it. No way around that one. And yes.. Obama would love all of to forget about this little subject. This IS my bottom line.. I don't vote for anyone who is for killing unborn babies.. even if they want to kill less. Come on people WAKE up. Listen to what you are saying.. Obama is for killing babies.. ok I'll give you less babies.

I'm pro-choice, but I"m not pro-abortion. Personally, the mere thought of aborting a baby makes me sick to my stomach. But I don't believe in limiting citizens' rights either. It is not my responsibility to make moral choices for other women.

 

[JAE]

Beth, again, you are really blind to the facts. What Obama says he will do if he becomes president will make it easier to have abortions. The number of abortions will go up. Do you understand the Hyde amendment? Do you understnad FOCA? I don't think you do if you still say that Obama wants to work to lower the abortion rate.

I personally do not believe Obama is the anti Christ or devil, BTW.

 

[Hathery]

Beth, again, you are really blind to the facts. What Obama says he will do if he becomes president will make it easier to have abortions. The number of abortions will go up. Do you understand the Hyde amendment? Do you understnad FOCA? I don't think you do if you still say that Obama wants to work to lower the abortion rate.

I personally do not believe Obama is the anti Christ or devil, BTW.

Obama wants to educate people to PREVENT abortions, but doesn't want to limit women's options either. I don't understand what is wrong with that.

 

[janetupnorth]

Obama wants to educate people to PREVENT abortions, but doesn't want to limit women's options either. I don't understand what is wrong with that.

What is wrong with that is that he is telling people whatever they want to hear in many, many areas.

You are talking out of both sides by saying you want to prevent abortions but not limit options. So you were against it before you were for it?

What you aren't understanding about what is wrong with that is life isn't about having things however you FEEL is best for the time. Right is right, wrong is wrong. Sin is sin. We live is such a "touchy-feely" society...don't give the kids F's, it will hurt their feelings...don't tell them that they are wrong, you might hurt their emotions.

People don't want to be accountable to others or to a higher being. It's easy to do what "feels" right. Our society is bit by bit going downhill due to that. I see it more and more every day and believe me, I will FIGHT to make sure my children know what work is, what actions and consequences are and what it is to be right and wrong and have a conscience.

There is a fine line between tolerance and complacency.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I'm pro-choice, but I"m not pro-abortion. Personally, the mere thought of aborting a baby makes me sick to my stomach. But I don't believe in limiting citizens' rights either. It is not my responsibility to make moral choices for other women.

I'm pro-life but I don't think it's my right to impose my opinion on others. I can tell them my view and have a discussion with them and pray for them but it is not my right to make choices for others.

JAE, I am tired of you telling me I am wrong or blind because I disagree with you. We all have a right to our opinions and I resent being attacked every time I say anything. Whenever someone posts something that doesn't agree with your views, you (several of you not just JAE) ridicule, attack and mock what is said. Too bad we can't have a conversation. No one is as bad as you all make Obama out to be. Whenever anyone states something positive in response to the anti-Obama posts we are put down and ignored. How about looking at both sides - instead of only reading links by people like Hannady, why not look at things from people in the center or the other side too. Debates are more interesting and informative when both sides are allowed to state their arguements.

Sad, really sad.

 

[jenne]

Obama is not the devil nor is he the anti-Christ. I am appauled that so many are even going there. It shows desperation. Sad, really sad, that someone has to be crucified in such a vile way to try to get your own side elected. All this "Christian" talk mixed with this character assassination and stretching of a thread of truth into such blatent lies and scare tactics would be almost comical if it wasn't so sad. This kind of talk is what's scaring me. I thought this country was beyond this kind of lynching.

I am praying for you all. And for peace in our country. This kind of talk will only incite racial discontent. Shame.


Onto the subject of the thread: Obama is not pro-abortion he is pro-choice and has said that he wants to work toward cutting down on the number of abortions. He voted against the bill that you guys like to cite because that bill wasn't going to do anything to change things and because there was already a law protecting those babies on the Illinois books.

WOW...I guess I'm not seeing this. What scare tactics? What character assassination? What blatant lies? The only statement made was when one lady recounts what her grandfather says about Obama's following, and I think we ALL know that is simply opinion. I don't think that comment is going to make anyone change their vote to McCain...so your so called scare tactics to get any certain person in office are not much for scare tactics.

And Where on earth did you come up with anything on here inciting racial discontent?? I haven't seen a single thing on here about race...and I'm not going to start what I think about how the race card has been played in this election.

I can come on these threads, read, and learn what other people think...and I can see BOTH sides, because I don't have a strong tie to EITHER candidate!! I won't waste my vote on either one of them. I don't like Obama, and could never, with a clear conscience, vote for him. I don't like McCain either...sure, he's the lesser of two evils, but that doesn't make him the man to run the country. My vote will be cast as a protest to our two party system and for a man that I know I can vote for with a totally clear conscience.

Just to throw it out there...since the pot is being stirred by many anyhow...McCain isn't entirely pro-life in my mind...he's for embryonic stem cell research...which is the killing of a fetus (child) for research purposes. He was one of the infamous 14 who were going to overstep their bounds and filibuster Bush's supreme court nominations....so what's that tell us about who McCain will give us for justices if he's elected? It certainly raises questions in my mind! I have gotten to the point in this election that I have realized that this country is going to have a rough 4 years...and when it's over, maybe we can elect someone who can come in and pick up the pieces well. I'm just bracing myself now for what's to come...

 

[Hathery]

What is wrong with that is that he is telling people whatever they want to hear in many, many areas.

You are talking out of both sides by saying you want to prevent abortions but not limit options. So you were against it before you were for it?

What you aren't understanding about what is wrong with that is life isn't about having things however you FEEL is best for the time. Right is right, wrong is wrong. Sin is sin. We live is such a "touchy-feely" society...don't give the kids F's, it will hurt their feelings...don't tell them that they are wrong, you might hurt their emotions.

People don't want to be accountable to others or to a higher being. It's easy to do what "feels" right. Our society is bit by bit going downhill due to that. I see it more and more every day and believe me, I will FIGHT to make sure my children know what work is, what actions and consequences are and what it is to be right and wrong and have a conscience.

There is a fine line between tolerance and complacency.

I don't think that it is "talking about of both sides." There is nothing wrong or illogical about wanting to prevent unwanted pregnancies, which is what I support. Abortion should always be a last resort, and even then only after strong consideration of alternatives. However, it should be an option that you can take or leave. I refuse to tell someone that they must take an unwanted pregnancy to full-term. It's not my place to do so. I am NOT accountable to that person; they are accountable to their own decisions and those consequences.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

Obama wants to educate people to PREVENT abortions, but doesn't want to limit women's options either. I don't understand what is wrong with that.

Hitler also wanted to educate people on his beliefs that Jews were not humans and responsible for all the problems they were having at that time.
Or when white supremacists wanted to educate people to believe that African Americans were not humans either and were more animal. Also that they should not be educated and used as slaves against their wishes.

Sound familiar?

Pro Choice teaches that a baby inside the mother's womb is not really a baby but a "thing" or group of cells that goes through a metamorphasis:
Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny
Which was a big fat lie started by Ernst Haeckel, and it is still being taught today even though it was found to be a lie many, many years ago.
He even drew up fake pictures of an animals embryo to prove his lie. It's no wonder racists embraced evolution and the idea that some people were more evolved while others were still animal like. And it's no wonder Nazi's embraced this as well to justify their actions.
And before anyone assumes I am attacking them, I am not calling anyone a racist or a Nazi but I am trying to prove a point.
If we teach our children that they are nothing but animals, that's exactly what they are going to act like. When we make light of something so precious as LIFE, whether it be an elderly person, a disabled person, mentally ill person (who by the way Hitler disposed of), babies in the womb, and people of different nationalities, we are asking for big problems.
There is no excuse for murder. NEVER! Most abortions are done by selfish women who don't want to be bothered by a baby who would ruin their fun, or make sacrifices to financially deal with a baby. Less than 1% is for health reasons or rape and you can ask any doctor it is extremely rare, I have asked. It's God's law but when man's law interferes or goes against God's laws, it's time for laws to change, people to repent and christians to help the helpless.

Debbie

 

[Hathery]

I happen to believe that people ARE just animals. Mammals, to be exact.

I've already stated how useless I feel it is to bring "God's Law" into a debate, so I'm not going to refute that portion of your post.

 

[krzymomof4]

Okay, so I will probably get slain here, but IMHO it is not just an abortion issue. It is a moral character issue. It is to the point where you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils so to speak. For me it not just abortion, but marriage as well. I will be basing my vote on trying to get the country back to a point where we are blessed not priviledged. I am in no way a religious "nut", I won't even open that can of worms...but as the morality of this country has declined so has the other things that have now become "issues" in this election (i.e. financial, war, etc.)

 

[jrstephens]

If we teach our children that they are nothing but animals, that's exactly what they are going to act like. When we make light of something so precious as LIFE, whether it be an elderly person, a disabled person, mentally ill person (who by the way Hitler disposed of), babies in the womb, and people of different nationalities, we are asking for big problems.
There is no excuse for murder. NEVER! Most abortions are done by selfish women who don't want to be bothered by a baby who would ruin their fun, or make sacrifices to financially deal with a baby. Less than 1% is for health reasons or rape and you can ask any doctor it is extremely rare, I have asked. It's God's law but when man's law interferes or goes against God's laws, it's time for laws to change, people to repent and christians to help the helpless.

Debbie

You are right on target again Debbie!!!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Okay, so I will probably get slain here, but IMHO it is not just an abortion issue. It is a moral character issue. It is to the point where you have to choose the lesser of 2 evils so to speak. For me it not just abortion, but marriage as well. I will be basing my vote on trying to get the country back to a point where we are blessed not priviledged. I am in no way a religious "nut", I won't even open that can of worms...but as the morality of this country has declined so has the other things that have now become "issues" in this election (i.e. financial, war, etc.)

I guess I'll just follow you around and say "I agree" today.

 

[krzymomof4]

I guess I'll just follow you around and say "I agree" today.

Sounds good to me. I don't get told I am right often enough:love:

 

[DebbieSAChef]

I value educating people on how to make correct, preventative decisions so that it never gets to the point where an abortion is necessary. I think arguing abortion is putting the cart before the horse; we need to look at the root of the problem.

I really don't think it's "spin." I, in my personal life, have much more pressing issues to deal with than abortion. I'm sure I"m not alone. I'd be very upset if the candidates chose to focus on so-called "moral" issues rather than issues that actually affect my daily life.

Well it all does come back to a moral issue but more than that a spiritual issue. If we loved our neighbor as ourselves, we wouldn't have the issues going on in this world.

Debbie

 

[AnnieBee]

If you feel that you can't tell a women she can't have the right to abort, because it is taking away another citizen's "right", then why is it OK to have laws that tell people that they cannot choose to steal, murder, commit fraud, rape etc etc...

If you agree that abortion is taking the life of an un-born child, and agree it is wrong, and it makes you "sick to your stomach", then why is it OK to give a women this "right", but not give other citizens these other rights (to steal etc)?

 

[Hathery]

If you feel that you can't tell a women she can't have the right to abort, because it is taking away another citizen's "right", then why is it OK to have laws that tell people that they cannot choose to steal, murder, commit fraud, rape etc etc...

If you agree that abortion is taking the life of an un-born child, and agree it is wrong, and it makes you "sick to your stomach", then why is it OK to give a women this "right", but not give other citizens these other rights (to steal etc)?

I agree that it is SOMETIMES an unborn child. I do believe it's a glob of cells in the very beginning, and I don't believe that's a person. But that's my own belief.

Citizens shouldn't have the right to steal, murder, etc. because that effects other citizens. Abortion doesn't effect me one bit. If I were ever forced to make that choice, it would effect me. What others choose to do does not.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I agree that it is SOMETIMES an unborn child. I do believe it's a glob of cells in the very beginning, and I don't believe that's a person. But that's my own belief.

Citizens shouldn't have the right to steal, murder, etc. because that effects other citizens. Abortion doesn't effect me one bit. If I were ever forced to make that choice, it would effect me. What others choose to do does not.

Wow - that is just sad.


I have a friend who is a lesbian. Our lifestyles couldn't be any more different. She, however is very passionately pro-life. Why? Because she is adopted....and knows for a fact that her birth mother almost aborted her. She realizes how close she came to not being here. So - had she been aborted, she wouldn't have been human....and the world would have missed out on an incredible person who has been a loyal friend to me since college.

 

[DebbieSAChef]

If you feel that you can't tell a women she can't have the right to abort, because it is taking away another citizen's "right", then why is it OK to have laws that tell people that they cannot choose to steal, murder, commit fraud, rape etc etc...

If you agree that abortion is taking the life of an un-born child, and agree it is wrong, and it makes you "sick to your stomach", then why is it OK to give a women this "right", but not give other citizens these other rights (to steal etc)?

Good point! :thumbup:

We have to have an absolute truth and a godly standard to live by or else people will pick and choose which laws work for them and which don't. God is perfect and therefore has chosen the best laws for us.
I read a really good point about how mothers are prosecuted for killing their children but it's ok to kill them before they are born. As if there is any difference. And I agree as the morality dwindles in this country the evil spreads like a disease. And people become immune to it.

Debbie