Should healthcare and paid sick leave be government-mandated for all employees?

[Belle4562]

I have been researching healthcare, and I know this can be a hot issue, but I think everyone should read as much as they can. The next few months are going to be critical. I have attached two sites. One is from a religious-based civil liberties firm that directs attention to specific areas of importance in the bill. Feel free to look over both - or just the bill itself- if you do not want the religious take, and make an informed decision that is in your best interest. ***Please lets keep this discussion civil and respectful! 1st attachment is the legal analysis, second is the bill - warning it is over a thousand pages! Happy reading!
http://www.lc.org/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

 

[legacypc46]

Thanks. This is a piece of legislation I actually want to read for myself...nice to have the link.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I've been reading through it for several days now. It's frightening to me that the people deciding this haven't taken the time to read it, when it effects the lives of all U.S. citizens.

 

[Shawnna]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. The government should not own stock in private corporations, nor should it be competing with private industries. Small businesses will fold left and right because they will not be able to survive with all the required costs...Socialism is on its way.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. The government should not own stock in private corporations, nor should it be competing with private industries. Small businesses will fold left and right because they will not be able to survive with all the required costs...Socialism is on its way.

Yes. My husband works for a Private Sr. Assisted Living Center. Everyone there is already aware of that fact that if this bill goes through as is, eventually, they will be closed down. A whole industry will be destroyed. (and it's not the only one).

 

[chefsteph07]

It sounds as though people are slowly waking up to the nature of this. Have you heard about all the town hall meetings while congress is off? People are becoming more outraged!

I truly hope this does not pass. I can't imagine it will, but stranger (and stupider) things have happened. I guess we can just pray. As usual!

 

[lockhartkitchen]

It sounds as though people are slowly waking up to the nature of this. Have you heard about all the town hall meetings while congress is off? People are becoming more outraged!

I truly hope this does not pass. I can't imagine it will, but stranger (and stupider) things have happened. I guess we can just pray. As usual!

We have a town meeting Monday in our town. The last town meeting our sitting congressman had, he was hit with the BIG question on healthcare: "How can you vote for something you NEVER read." Great question. My husband heads up a group he named Conservative Friends of Yamhill County. Daily he is contacted by the community wanting to be added to his email list, which keeps them notified of events and laws. It has been amazing how many people that have never taken a stand, are now really feeling compelled. Conservative Democrats, non-affiliates, Libertarians, all groups, not just Republicans. He has encouraged members of the community to ask and get questions answered at the town hall Monday.

Our local news channels have already contacted him for interviews. Some in our community are all worried this is going to be a "yelling event" and the police even contacted my husband for a pre-meeting to make sure this was going to be peaceful. My husband assured them we're there to get questions answered in a respectful way. This congressman works for ALL citizens. We deserve to get answers. Our last tea party had 400+ organzied on The Fourth of July, so I can see how our numbers can feel threatening.

 

[legacypc46]

Whenever possble, I go to the original source when trying to form an opinion on something. (And I don't belong to either political party...or any other political party.) Whether you think the following article is relevant is up to you, but it caught my attention.

Yesterday on FOX (I watch MSNBC too...so as to get 'both sides'), Beck referenced an article published eight months ago by Dr. Ezekiel J Emanuel. He is a bioethicist who is currently a special advisor for health policy to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. (He is also the brother of the White House Chief of Staff.)

The article lays out an argument for health care management via The Complete Lives System. From the article: "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated."

You can go to the article to read his rationale for supporting this system (and to better understand what it is and is not). The footnotes are worth reading as well. The full article is at Lancet.com and registration is free. [This is the medical journal in which the article was published.]

I also found a copy of the article at the link below; scroll down half-way and it is posted. (I have no affiliation with this site; have never been there before this morning; found it via websearching for this article. Feel free to ignore all the opinions posted there).

[Electing God]: Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Whenever possble, I go to the original source when trying to form an opinion on something. (And I don't belong to either political party...or any other political party.) Whether you think the following article is relevant is up to you, but it caught my attention.

Yesterday on FOX (I watch MSNBC too...so as to get 'both sides'), Beck referenced an article published eight months ago by Dr. Ezekiel J Emanuel. He is a bioethicist who is currently a special advisor for health policy to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. (He is also the brother of the White House Chief of Staff.)

The article lays out an argument for health care management via The Complete Lives System. From the article: "When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated."

You can go to the article to read his rationale for supporting this system (and to better understand what it is and is not). The footnotes are worth reading as well. The full article is at Lancet.com and registration is free. [This is the medical journal in which the article was published.]

I also found a copy of the article at the link below; scroll down half-way and it is posted. (I have no affiliation with this site; have never been there before this morning; found it via websearching for this article. Feel free to ignore all the opinions posted there).

[Electing God]: Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions

This is EXACTLY why I am so frightened for my Mom, and anyone else who has chronic health issues, or happens to be elderly. I can only hope and believe that those who support this Health Care Bill are doing so because they are unaware. And then I can only hope and pray that they educate themselves before it's too late. Or before they are the ones needing health care and finding themselves at the end of the "priority curve".

 

[Crystal Patton]

Thank you for posting these links. I have wanted to read it myself - though it will take a while to get through. LOL

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minn. - speaking to the House of Representatives, and reading directly from Dr. Ezekial Emanuel's notes on health care. Again, remember that Dr. Emanuel is the brother to Raul Emanuel, and has been appointed to 2 different positions in the current administration.

YouTube - The President's Health Care Advisers

 

[Chef Endora]

This IS so scary. If people don't get their heads out of their ****** and DO something, they will go ahead and pass it. We must get out now and be heard! The MSM...well you know who's side they are on. They were an integral part in The Great Manipulaton to begin with. These obnoxious idiots are in a big hurry to FORCE this upon us, without even reading the bill, and before the outcry gets louder. And, did you notice, they are special and wouldn't even have to have the same insurance. What does THAT tell us? Reminds me of Leona Helmsey. We are the "little people".
Our elected officials will not have any town meetings....they don't want to hear it. So, we are protesting outside of their FUNDRAISERS.
What a disgrace! I am now mobilized and ready & I plan on taking 3 people with me and I want each of them to bring someone, etc.

Yeah...this is change you can believe in. they never said it was gonna be good:grumpy: It's only been a little over 6 months and look at our "leader". He speaks down to and at us like we are children. He looks p****d like we are misbehaving. He is so used to being fawned & drooled over.

Now I'm all riled up again and have to go to bed. AFTER I add this: my DD and I are RNs near the Canadian border. We work with many nurses who come to the US to work. They HATE the Canadian system. If that is not enough, my DD works in Urology. She had a patient from Canada that came to the US for a cystoscopy so he wouldn't have to wait FIVE MONTHS for one in Canada. He is self pay for the services he receives here, plus he pays for the Canadian healthcare through his taxes. He had an foley catheter in his bladder which would stay in place the 5 months he would have waited. When he had his cysto here, bladder cancer was diagnosed and he was able to start treatment at an early stage. The doctor did the procedure, but she worries she won't get paid.

This government is stuck on stupid. Sorry about the rant...:blushing:

 

[legacypc46]

. Sorry about the rant...:blushing:

I know this is a very sensitive topic...but I just want to ask if we can all 'be nice' on this thread. Things got so heated here during the election, that the issues sometimes got lost in all the emotions and cheffers eventually ended up insulting each other. (I'm not disregarding your concerns.) You insights into canadian health care are helpful.

I'm just thrilled we're sharing information, so those that want to learn more about the proposals can read/listen for themselves.

Becky, thanks for posting the you tube link.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Basic Health Care Bill Explanations: What do you think?There are NO new enrollees in private health plans after January 1, 2013 (Div. A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (a)(1)(A) page 16 lines 11-16). I don't like this part.There is an out for the government to deny all private plans from qualifying after 2018 (Div.A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (b)(1)(A) page 17 lines 13-19). Who says this bill isn't a total takeover by the government?

The government can disqualify any plan for not adhering to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 or any other reason the Commissioner sees fit ((Div.A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (b)(1)(B) page 18 lines 13-17). Nice.There is a statement that the government has the right to conduct examinations and audits of Qualifying Health Benefit Plans (QHPB) and recoup the costs involved (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (b)(2)(B) page 43 lines 13-18). Nothing in the paragraph stipulates how infrequent these audits need to be. Therefore, the government could run private plans out of business. Once the government disqualifies a plan, you’re in the public plan (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (d)(2)(B) page 44 lines 16-22) and (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (d)(2)(D) page 45 lines 7-10).Private Insurers are not allowed to make a profit (Div.A Title I Subtitle F Section 2714 (a) page 54 lines 1-13). This obviously will bankrupt private insurers.
Each company must reinsure all retirees, their spouses and dependents (Div.A Title I Subtitle F Section 164 (a)(1) page 65 lines 14-22). This obviously will bankrupt companies.
The government will automatically enroll you in the public plan if you are not in a qualifying health plan (Div.A Title II Subtitle A Section 205 (b)(3)(A) pages 97-98 lines 22-25 and 1-2). I thought this was all about choice. Don't forget that the government decides what qualifies as a good plan.

If you have any sort of family change: marriage; divorce; new child; child completing college and now off of your insurance or move, you are automatically enrolled in the government plan (Div. A Title II Subtitle A Section 205 (b)(2)(B) pages 96-97 lines 24-25 and 1-11).Automatic takeover by the government of your insurance. What happened to "if you like your insurance plan, you get to keep it"?

 

[lockhartkitchen]

If you have any sort of family change: marriage; divorce; new child; child completing college and now off of your insurance or move, you are automatically enrolled in the government plan (Div. A Title II Subtitle

That's because "Big Brother" wants to limit the number of children we have.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

Wow, this is so scary. I'm grateful my Representatives will not be voting for this bill, but yet it makes me feel like I can't do anything either - I am praying though.

 

[Shawnna]

If this is such a great plan then our government officials should have to have the same plan.

If you say anything against this plan to anyone who loves our "leader" then they say you are against healthcare for everyone. That you don't believe the poor should have insurance, etc. I am so sick of all of this. Any time you disagree with our "leader" then you are considered a horrible person.

 

[Jennie4PC]

I didnt even want to read on after the 1st page, but I did. That is some scary stuff. Really what does the goverment know about your health problems. I just want my dr to tell me when I need surgery and not have to send it to the goverment to decide when and what I will have done. I will pray that this does not pass. I dont know how these congress men/ women even have time to read over 1000 pages of who knows what.

 

[Nanisu]

Since when has the government ever taken anything and made it easier?

 

[ChefJoyJ]

I didnt even want to read on after the 1st page, but I did. That is some scary stuff. Really what does the goverment know about your health problems. I just want my dr to tell me when I need surgery and not have to send it to the goverment to decide when and what I will have done. I will pray that this does not pass. I dont know how these congress men/ women even have time to read over 1000 pages of who knows what.

A whole lot of them haven't. A scary thought, considering they are about to sign a piece of legislation that will impact us on so, very many levels.

 

[Ann F]

BIG thank you for the links. I've been wanting to have this info. Makes me sick (maybe I shouldn't say that... )

 

[Chef Endora]

Basic Health Care Bill Explanations: What do you think?


There are NO new enrollees in private health plans after January 1, 2013 (Div. A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (a)(1)(A) page 16 lines 11-16). I don't like this part.

There is an out for the government to deny all private plans from qualifying after 2018 (Div.A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (b)(1)(A) page 17 lines 13-19). Who says this bill isn't a total takeover by the government?

The government can disqualify any plan for not adhering to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 or any other reason the Commissioner sees fit ((Div.A Title I Subtitle A Section 102 (b)(1)(B) page 18 lines 13-17). Nice.


There is a statement that the government has the right to conduct examinations and audits of Qualifying Health Benefit Plans (QHPB) and recoup the costs involved (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (b)(2)(B) page 43 lines 13-18). Nothing in the paragraph stipulates how infrequent these audits need to be. Therefore, the government could run private plans out of business. Once the government disqualifies a plan, you’re in the public plan (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (d)(2)(B) page 44 lines 16-22) and (Div.A Title I Subtitle E Section 142 (d)(2)(D) page 45 lines 7-10).

Private Insurers are not allowed to make a profit (Div.A Title I Subtitle F Section 2714 (a) page 54 lines 1-13). This obviously will bankrupt private insurers.
Each company must reinsure all retirees, their spouses and dependents (Div.A Title I Subtitle F Section 164 (a)(1) page 65 lines 14-22). This obviously will bankrupt companies.


The government will automatically enroll you in the public plan if you are not in a qualifying health plan (Div.A Title II Subtitle A Section 205 (b)(3)(A) pages 97-98 lines 22-25 and 1-2). I thought this was all about choice. Don't forget that the government decides what qualifies as a good plan.

If you have any sort of family change: marriage; divorce; new child; child completing college and now off of your insurance or move, you are automatically enrolled in the government plan (Div. A Title II Subtitle A Section 205 (b)(2)(B) pages 96-97 lines 24-25 and 1-11).Automatic takeover by the government of your insurance. What happened to "if you like your insurance plan, you get to keep it"?

Thank you to Becky for posting this. I got quite editorial in my prior post and was properly chided for it and I apologize. (Thank you for putting me on the staight & narrow) There is still a chance that this will be passed. If this is not what you want, please let your representatives know.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Here is a continuation of my above post:Basic Health Care Bill Explanations - What Do You Think?The public health plan has no dental coverage (Div.A Title II Subtitle B Section 221 (b)(3)(B) page 117 line 9). ***There is a 2.5% tax on all individuals who do not get acceptable coverage (Div.A Title IV Subtitle A Section 59B (a) page 167 line 23). And Obama says there are no new taxes for this. If your employer elects to not provide coverage, there is an 8% tax on wages (Div.A Title IV Subtitle A Section 412 (a) page 183 lines 17-20). If your current employer pays more than 8% now, what do you think they will do? You’re going on the public plan. Is this what you want? There is a range of taxes (1%-5.4%) for people making over $350,000/year (Div.A Title IV Subtitle D Section 59C (a)(1-3) pages 197-198 lines 21-23 and 1-6). And Obama says there are no new taxes for this. Actually, Obama has always stated that people making more than $250,000 a year will be paying for everyone else's way in this country if he got elected. No surprise here.
By 2012, there must be submitted, a study showing the savings, through 2019, generated as a result of the public health care (Div.A Title IV Subtitle D Section 59C (i)(4) page 201 lines 5-11). How could they possible predict this? The date is awfully close to Obama’s next election day. Who gets to do the study? They aren't listening to the Congressional Budget Office as it is. CBO says plan is too expensive. The administration doesn't care.***Just a note on this - I listened to a Town Hall Meeting with the president this morning, where, when pressed on the whole tax issue - he again said that there will be no new taxes. How is he saying this? I am listening to Meet The Press right now, where, when pressed, a couple of democratic congressmen are having to admit that of course there will have to be new taxes to pay for the plan.So - who's telling the truth?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Thank you to Becky for posting this. I got quite editorial in my prior post and was properly chided for it and I apologize. (Thank you for putting me on the staight & narrow) There is still a chance that this will be passed. If this is not what you want, please let your representatives know.

You are welcome.

There is a lot of "discussion" on the MSM and in alternative news media about this health care plan.

I'm not listening to much of it (although, because I am home sick, I did listen to some this morning.). Instead, I am reading what I can about it - read the actual Bill - read what those who are formulating the Bill have to say about it.
Find out for yourself what it's about, don't just take the media's word as truth. Remember - they can spin anything to say exactly what they want.

 

[Intrepid_Chef]

Thanks for this informative discussion. I will read the links posted when I have the time to fully digest them. Recently I went to a protest on health care and my "favorite" quote was from somebody who said, "We're against this health care. WE HAVEN'T READ IT." Hello? So she's against something she's never read? I can respect INFORMED opinions ... ill-informed, not so much.

In the interest of keeping this discussion productive, I will say that while I'm not sure I agree with this proposal (I probably will not) I would like to know how to solve problems like the following:

* Cancer survivor has a recurrance. Her insurance will not pay for the tumors to be removed because it is a "pre-existing condition."

* Another co-worker (this means both of these people have the same insurance as me) has a bacterial infection caused by a "superbug." The only antibiotic for this is $500 FOR SEVEN DAYS. She could barely afford the $50 "co-pay" for the ER visit! (I think the stupid hospital didn't know her plan and she was too sick to quesiton it.) Meanwhile the RX assist programs only help if you have no insurance. If you don't have insurance that covers your treatment, do you really have insurance?

* The rest of us are pretty much afraid to get sick, because our insurance has a $1,000 deductible. (Higher for families.) Yes, our plan does reimburse us for the first $500 a year we spend. So I try very, very hard to keep ALL my medical expenses per year under this.

* I've heard stories of people who need transplants needing to come up with money up front to pay for it!

* There are many people who USED to work for us who don't any more. If they're not married, where do they get health insurance? If not for COBRA, our own pastor and his wife would not have any coverage for their growing medical expenses.

And finally:

* It is cheaper for me to use the $4 generic plans than to use my own prescription coverage. And yet, when I hear my retired parents talk about their co-pays, I realized how blessed I am. Isn't there something wrong when our limited-income seniors pay so much out of pocket?

In other words ... I would really like the growing number of people who oppose this come up with productive ideas that they WOULD support. Soaring prescription costs, no coverage for pre-existing conditions, and coverage for seniors and the unemployed are some problems we REALLY need to fix! That doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but can we at least change the bathwater please?

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Thanks for this informative discussion. I will read the links posted when I have the time to fully digest them. Recently I went to a protest on health care and my "favorite" quote was from somebody who said, "We're against this health care. WE HAVEN'T READ IT." Hello? So she's against something she's never read? I can respect INFORMED opinions ... ill-informed, not so much.In the interest of keeping this discussion productive, I will say that while I'm not sure I agree with this proposal (I probably will not) I would like to know how to solve problems like the following:* Cancer survivor has a recurrance. Her insurance will not pay for the tumors to be removed because it is a "pre-existing condition."* Another co-worker (this means both of these people have the same insurance as me) has a bacterial infection caused by a "superbug." The only antibiotic for this is $500 FOR SEVEN DAYS. She could barely afford the $50 "co-pay" for the ER visit! (I think the stupid hospital didn't know her plan and she was too sick to quesiton it.) Meanwhile the RX assist programs only help if you have no insurance. If you don't have insurance that covers your treatment, do you really have insurance?* The rest of us are pretty much afraid to get sick, because our insurance has a $1,000 deductible. (Higher for families.) Yes, our plan does reimburse us for the first $500 a year we spend. So I try very, very hard to keep ALL my medical expenses per year under this.* I've heard stories of people who need transplants needing to come up with money up front to pay for it!* There are many people who USED to work for us who don't any more. If they're not married, where do they get health insurance? If not for COBRA, our own pastor and his wife would not have any coverage for their growing medical expenses.And finally:* It is cheaper for me to use the $4 generic plans than to use my own prescription coverage. And yet, when I hear my retired parents talk about their co-pays, I realized how blessed I am. Isn't there something wrong when our limited-income seniors pay so much out of pocket?In other words ... I would really like the growing number of people who oppose this come up with productive ideas that they WOULD support. Soaring prescription costs, no coverage for pre-existing conditions, and coverage for seniors and the unemployed are some problems we REALLY need to fix! That doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but can we at least change the bathwater please?

Our limited-income Seniors are already on the Gov't Plan. It's called Medicare. There are already so many stupid rules and regulations for that, that most people on the plan (and their caregivers) can't figure it out. ESPECIALLY if they have a condition such as Dementia (My mom has Alzheimers - I know, because I've tried and tried to figure out her plan) And the new plan would cut the funding for Sr. Health care by 500 MILLION dollars.
I don't have the answers. But I do know that there isn't an agency run by the Gov't that is run efficiently or well. I also know that I don't want the Gov't deciding on my healthcare - and I don't want to be taken care of by the government.As for not having read the Plan - there are those who are supporting it - even Congressmen/women who are holding these Townhall Meetings - who admit to not having read it. Really, it's even more dangerous to be in support of something that is going to change the face of this nation, without even knowing what you are supporting.

 

[legacypc46]

I am most concerned by two things:

1) pre-election recordings made of our current leadership show a consistent support for an eventual conversion to a single payer system
2) the recent article written by Dr Ezekiel (the link to which I posted earlier). It is a brillant and logical argument for the "Complete Lives" system...if you accept the premise of a 'socially judicial allocation of health care resources'.

I am not tied to any party, but I do believe in critical thinking. If the current leadership has advocated a single payer system for the past 10+ years, is it reasonable to assume that this is no longer a desired goal? If Dr Ezekial published his article just this past January and he is now holding two health care advisory positions within the White House, what influence does he have in determing the administration's long-range goals? (Is his influence heightened since his brother is the chief of staff?).

I agree that we have a responsibility to read (or at least understand) what is in the bill. It is our future and that of our children (and our parents). Watch the rhetoric (of both sides) on TV, but know what it is the bill actually says.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I am most concerned by two things:

1) pre-election recordings made of our current leadership show a consistent support for an eventual conversion to a single payer system
2) the recent article written by Dr Ezekiel (the link to which I posted earlier). It is a brillant and logical argument for the "Complete Lives" system...if you accept the premise of a 'socially judicial allocation of health care resources'.

I am not tied to any party, but I do believe in critical thinking. If the current leadership has advocated a single payer system for the past 10+ years, is it reasonable to assume that this is no longer a desired goal? If Dr Ezekial published his article just this past January and he is now holding two health care advisory positions within the White House, what influence does he have in determing the administration's long-range goals? (Is his influence heightened since his brother is the chief of staff?).

I agree that we have a responsibility to read (or at least understand) what is in the bill. It is our future and that of our children (and our parents). Watch the rhetoric (of both sides) on TV, but know what it is the bill actually says.

I agree that those two things are most concerning.

Dr. Ezekiel is now saying that his thinking has "evolved" regarding the Complete Life System of health care. But he's not saying how it's evolved.

What concerns me though, are the number of people who believe whatever they are told, without looking at the facts. ( i.e. - what the bill actually says)

You can say whatever you want to tickle itching ears - but it's what's on paper that will become the law of the land.

 

[lockhartkitchen]

Yeah! News today is good. Voices of many have been heard. Looks like the white house is thinking twice now about the single payer.

 

[chefann]

The public health plan has no dental coverage (Div.A Title II Subtitle B Section 221 (b)(3)(B) page 117 line 9).


***There is a 2.5% tax on all individuals who do not get acceptable coverage (Div.A Title IV Subtitle A Section 59B (a) page 167 line 23). And Obama says there are no new taxes for this.

If your employer elects to not provide coverage, there is an 8% tax on wages (Div.A Title IV Subtitle A Section 412 (a) page 183 lines 17-20). If your current employer pays more than 8% now, what do you think they will do? You’re going on the public plan. Is this what you want?


There is a range of taxes (1%-5.4%) for people making over $350,000/year (Div.A Title IV Subtitle D Section 59C (a)(1-3) pages 197-198 lines 21-23 and 1-6). And Obama says there are no new taxes for this. Actually, Obama has always stated that people making more than $250,000 a year will be paying for everyone else's way in this country if he got elected. No surprise here.

I wanted to post this link to analysis of those points. This item was written by a Law Professor at Cornell University, and points out that the IRS will be intricately involved in the healthcare system because of the additional taxes for underinsured. And we all know how user-friendly and infallable the IRS is.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

I wanted to post this link to analysis of those points. This item was written by a Law Professor at Cornell University, and points out that the IRS will be intricately involved in the healthcare system because of the additional taxes for underinsured. And we all know how user-friendly and infallable the IRS is.

Ahhh, another thread in the tangled web...

 

[baychef]

Forgive me for not reading all of the postings but this thread peeked my interest because I listened to a very interesting program on NPR today on the way to work. It was the Diane Rehm show and this was the topic.

This program pointed out that the topic of health care will never be agreed upon. It is complex, it involves drug companies, Medicare, private insurance, the question of how it is funded, hospitals, nursing homes, doctors and the list goes on and on. There currently is no bill written but several drafts and revisions. There are hundreds of alternative suggestions.

Yes, this is scary with or without political views involved. No one will be a total winner with or without any health plan.

For me, I am fine, my employer has an excellent plan. My son, however, is uninsured and can not afford insurance. Neither I nor my ex-husband can afford it for him. I have taken an "Afflac" cancer policy out for him and myself. My parents were dairy farmers. Unless you have lived or worked on a farm, you cannot imagine the long, physical hard work involved. They are now in the Medicare "doughnut". Just in the last 2 months their prescription refills have been paid out of pocket...$500, $900 and $400. They live on Social Security and $600 a month of other income from property sales.

There are MILLIONS of stories out there! Here is the description of this program if anyone is interested.

Lobbyists and the Health Care Debate
There are at least six health care lobbyists for each member of Congress, and so far this year they've spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars: How lobbyists are shaping the healthcare policy debate.

Guests
Dave Levinthal, Center for Responsive Politics opensecrets.org

Norman Ornstein, is resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute; coauthor with Thomas Mann of "The Broken Branch: How Congress Is Failing America and How to Get It Back on Track."

Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Wendell Potter, senior fellow on Health Care, Center for Media and Democracy and former health industry director of public relations

Probably won't be back on this thread but just wanted to contribute to more information on this subject.

 

[legacypc46]

Thanks for your input Ann...I always enjoy our discussions. If you do come back, please read my link to the Ezekiel Emanuel article. It is brillantly written.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Another link that is interesting...whether you like Sarah Palin or not, this article makes a lot of sense.

Lawyers, Tort Reform, and Healthcare....they're all intertwined...


http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/note.php?note_id=120607013434&id=24718773587&ref=nf

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Just a look at how National Health Care is working in the U.K.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

 

[Shawnna]

I have been getting cards and emails from Moms In Touch and emails from Moms Rising that are really pushing this healthcare thing...and paid sick days for all employees. I believe that healthcare should be available to all people. I have no problem with my tax dollars funding our low income state healthcare program for children...although I do have a problem with illegal aliens receiving it. I am not heartless. I hate to see sick children and if they didn't receive the free healthcare I would probably go broke trying to help them get the care they needed. However, I don't think it is any of the governments business if I choose not to have health insurance. I do have a policy right now...which I am about to cancel because it pays nothing. I had health insurance at my last job and until the last year there they paid for my entire family, but had to stop because of the expense...it was state insurance. We were lucky enough to work for a program that had the income to provide that for us. However, many employers do not have that kind of money. So many are barely making it. They are making a living and there isn't any extra money left over after paying their payroll, taxes, license fees, unemployment, etc. Now this group is pushing for paid sick leave for all employees...that would be great in a perfect world. If my business has 5 employees and is barely making it how do they expect them to pay me to stay home and pay another employee to take my spot at work...possibly leading to overtime pay. These kind of programs are going to put small businesses...and even some who aren't small...out of business. Then there will be more people unemployed and being taken care of by the government. They send out these surveys...one question was "have you ever been financially burdened because you had to stay home and take care of a sick child"...well, one day without pay would be a burden to a lot of people, but its also a burden on the employer...and even the school system because they didn't get funding for that child. That question is very one-sided...like most of the survey/poll questions these groups are bombarding the country with.

What I want to say is that if our tax dollars didn't fund the killing of babies here in the United States and overseas then there would be lots of money to put into programs we already have for low-income people who are legal American citizens.

Okay...sorry, I'll get off my soap box.