Holiday Plates/Platter Instead of Christmas!

[jrstephens]

I see that PC is also calling Christmas items holiday items. I am not happy with this at all and I am going to email HO.

The plates/platters have Christmas trees on them, so, they are clearly for Christmas and if anyone is buying them they are getting them for that Holiday.

I do not know if the Holiday Desserts book contains recipes for other holidays since I have not seen it, so, I cannot comment on it until I know it's contents.

This is something that bothers me to the core that Christ is taken out of Christmas when without Christ there would be no Christmas. Other holidays do not get named something else to pacify all other religions, so, why should Christmas be discriminated against.

I am sure I will be opening up a can of worms, but if Christians do not stand up to keeping Christ in Christmas then who will?

 

[chefann]

There are other holidays in the cookbook.Frankly, I wish the plates were winter instead of Christmas, since there are a LOT of people in the US who adhere to other faiths or none at all.

 

[redsoxgirl]

There are other recipes besides Christmas in the book.

I agree with the plates. When they showed them at NC, I whispered to my neighbor "What if you don't celebrate Christmas?". It's not like they're just trees with snow or snowmen - they're clearly decorated trees.

It doesn't bother me so much that it isn't geared towards the Christ portion of Christmas, but I can see how it would bother some. I'm just glad they aren't Santa plates or something!

 

[jrstephens]

I just sent an email to HO.

 

[babywings76]

I agree that if it's a Christmas themed plate, it should be called Christmas, not holiday. Wasn't it Walmart or Target or something that tried calling it Holiday, and people blasted them for doing that? I do think it's better to appeal to as many people as possible, so I think if they want to call it a holiday plate, then there should be other holidays showcased as well, and maybe they will in the future. I also think a winter-themed plate would've suited many other faiths and been more useful for the whole winter season and not just December. Just my 2 cents.

 

[lacychef]

I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes it does bug me that people won't say 'merry Christmas' because they're afraid of insulting someone. I do respect that people do celebrate other holidays; and there are recipes for those in the book like Ann said. You're right though, they do have Xmas trees on them. (& I love 'em!) To call them "holiday plates", I do think that snowflakes might have sold more. Maybe these are the first in a series....

 

[pkd09]

In the business world, Holiday is the politically correct term. I work in an office FT and we are not allowed to say Merry Christmas only Happy Holidays.

 

[peichef]

I need to keep my mouth shut b/c I have very strong opinions on this topic & wouldn't want to offend anyone. I'll just say that I (as a Christian) wouldn't be insulted or offended if someone said Happy Channukah (sp?) or Happy Kwazaa (sp?) to me.
Seems to me that a majority of American & Cdn citizens celebrate Christmas (whether as a religious or commercial occasion) & so we should have to "water it down" for those who don't.Guess I didn't keep my mouth shut after all. But I tried not to build too big a soap box!

 

[susanr613]

Jennifer - thank you for e-mailing HO. I agree with your point that they are not "holiday" plates -they are clearly trees decorated for Christmas.

Even though I am not Christian, I totally agree that "Christ is taken out of Christmas when without Christ there would be no Christmas." It's just as disrespectful, to me, as people who try to convince me to put up a Christmas tree because "Christmas is a fun holiday for everyone." It isn't a "fun holiday for everyone," it's the anniversary of a miracle.

As for the cookbook, as far as I can tell there's one recipe for a "menorah cake" which is a white block with some candles stuck in it. What a joke!

Anyway, thanks again for bringing up the topic and escalating it to HO.

 

[peichef]

Up here (Canada) there has been a huge movement to rename Christmas Trees "Holiday Trees", esp in public places like airports & govt buildings. Sigh.So Susan, may I ask you -- would you, as a non-Christian, be offended if someone in a store wished you Merry Christmas? Or would simply say thanks & offer them a Happy Hannukah?

 

[jrstephens]

In the business world, Holiday is the politically correct term. I work in an office FT and we are not allowed to say Merry Christmas only Happy Holidays.

Then I would not say anything at all. I am not "politically correct" when it comes to Christ's birth.

 

[jrstephens]

Up here (Canada) there has been a huge movement to rename Christmas Trees "Holiday Trees", esp in public places like airports & govt buildings. Sigh.

Either Lowe's or home Depot ( I forget which one) tried that last year and when it blew up in their face, they issude an aology and said it was an ERROR in their paper, WHATEVER!!!

As you can tell this makes my blood pressure rise!

 

[vwpamperedchef]

Its a great point. I mean, clearly there is a Christmas tree on the plate, so why not call them Christmas Plates. If they wanted to brand them "holiday" plates then they should have considered using a more generic theme (such as snowmen, snowflakes etc).

While I agree that many other faiths use different items to represent their religious holiday, it is no mistake that a Christmas tree is for CHRISTMAS!

I hope HO clarifies or you get some type of reply from them. Surely its going to ruffle a lot of feathers and I especially would like to know what the non Christians think about selling them.

 

[pamperedharriet]

I haven't seen the plates but going by what Jennifer said that they have Christmas trees on them I definately feel that they are Christmas plates and not Holiday plates. Thanks for letting me know before I do my sample order. I too wish it was something generic to sell to all.

 

[susanr613]

Hi Charity, thanks for asking. When someone offers me greetings, like Christmas or Easter, I thank them and usually say something like "you too." I figure they are being friendly, so why correct them? People who know I'm Jewish will offer me greetings for my holidays or at least ask about them, which I appreciate. To me, saying Merry Christmas or Happy Easter to a Christian is like saying Happy Birthday to someone on their birthday - you're acknowledging their special day. Is that ok with Christians, or is it disrespectful? Please let me know.

 

[christinaspc]

Do you guys think that the holiday cookbook will go over well ?

 

[wadesgirl]

Hi Charity, thanks for asking. When someone offers me greetings, like Christmas or Easter, I thank them and usually say something like "you too." I figure they are being friendly, so why correct them? People who know I'm Jewish will offer me greetings for my holidays or at least ask about them, which I appreciate. To me, saying Merry Christmas or Happy Easter to a Christian is like saying Happy Birthday to someone on their birthday - you're acknowledging their special day. Is that ok with Christians, or is it disrespectful? Please let me know.

I'm glad to see that you can take such a positive approach to this!

I do agree that those are Christmas trees and something like snowflakes would have been a better choice for "Holiday" except there are a lot of areas that don't get snow at the holiday season, should they be offended if it had snowflakes on there! Just being funny and sarcastic!

 

[susanr613]

Not to mention that there are many holidays that don't take place during winter ;-)

 

[pamperedharriet]

Not to mention that there are many holidays that don't take place during winter ;-)

Very true! We need an all purpose holiday plate. I wonder why they discontinued the Celebration Plate--anyone know?

 

[janetupnorth]

I guess if you wanted to be PC (politcally correct) not Pampered Chef, you would have come out with "seasonal plates".Holiday plates is the PC way of celebrating the Holiday formerly known as Christmas.I too have a problem (no personal offense to you Lacy since you first mentioned it) with the watering down of Christmas. It started with X-mas - I was taught that was taking Christ out of Christmas and replacing Him with a generic X or who you wanted.I personally will celebrate Christmas and not the gift-giving parts of Christmas...we don't even do a tree each year. We celebrate his birth and the wonderful gift of his son. More important to us though is Easter because the birth was only the beginning, His death is what saved us.Anyway, I don't like the "Holiday" term either. The trend is to not offend, but I find we can talk about any other religion in the name of tolerance BUT Christianity.Sigh...this is quite a long, touchy subject...

 

[janetupnorth]

Susan - although I liked the cookbook and the recipes, I too thought the Menorah cake was kind of cheesy!

 

[susanr613]

Glad I'm not the only one! Besides, Hanukah is all about latkes (potato pancakes) not cake ;-)

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Hi Charity, thanks for asking. When someone offers me greetings, like Christmas or Easter, I thank them and usually say something like "you too." I figure they are being friendly, so why correct them? People who know I'm Jewish will offer me greetings for my holidays or at least ask about them, which I appreciate. To me, saying Merry Christmas or Happy Easter to a Christian is like saying Happy Birthday to someone on their birthday - you're acknowledging their special day. Is that ok with Christians, or is it disrespectful? Please let me know.

It's not disrespectful in the least. And - knowing you are Jewish, I wouldn't wish you a Merry Christmas, but I would wish you a Happy Hannukah (or is it Chanukah? That does always confuse me!?)

And - the term "Holiday" doesn't really bother me. It's a marketing thing for sales. They want to include all of the celebrations around that time....so use a generic term....but incidentally, "holiday" is derived from "Holy Day"....so it can apply to Christmas. And, in the Christian faith - the highest holy day is not Christmas, but Easter...

 

[chefann]

I hope HO clarifies or you get some type of reply from them. Surely its going to ruffle a lot of feathers and I especially would like to know what the non Christians think about selling them.

I know one non-Christian who is very upset about them. It's not my place to point out who, so that's all I'll say.

Susan - although I liked the cookbook and the recipes, I too thought the Menorah cake was kind of cheesy!

I did, too! You'd think HO would be a little more sensitive to Jewish holidays, since at least one of the NEDs is Jewish (Randy Weiss).

Glad I'm not the only one! Besides, Hanukah is all about latkes (potato pancakes) not cake ;-)

mmm... yum!

 

[janetupnorth]

I've never had latkes, but a couple in the church I was growing up in both grew up in Israel. I remember 2 distinct years where they made a Seder meal and demonstrated the entire thing for us along with the readings. It was pretty fascinating! We got to try the matzo and I don't remember what else.

 

[janetupnorth]

It's not disrespectful in the least. And - knowing you are Jewish, I wouldn't wish you a Merry Christmas, but I would wish you a Happy Hannukah (or is it Chanukah? That does always confuse me!?)

And - the term "Holiday" doesn't really bother me. It's a marketing thing for sales. They want to include all of the celebrations around that time....so use a generic term....but incidentally, "holiday" is derived from "Holy Day"....so it can apply to Christmas. And, in the Christian faith - the highest holy day is not Christmas, but Easter...

Thanks for the history lesson Becky!

 

[ChefBeckyD]

And, even though they may try...even by saying Xmas they are not taking Christ out of Christmas.

X (although I can't draw it correctly on this keyboard) is the Greek symbol for Christ. In Theology and Bible classes during college, I often used an X in my notes to signify Christ.

 

[kitchenfun2day]

This is something that bothers me to the core that Christ is taken out of Christmas when without Christ there would be no Christmas. Other holidays do not get named something else to pacify all other religions, so, why should Christmas be discriminated against.

I am sure I will be opening up a can of worms, but if Christians do not stand up to keeping Christ in Christmas then who will?[/QUOTE]




WELL said!!!! :thumbup:

 

[pamperedlinda]

And, even though they may try...even by saying Xmas they are not taking Christ out of Christmas.

X (although I can't draw it correctly on this keyboard) is the Greek symbol for Christ. In Theology and Bible classes during college, I often used an X in my notes to signify Christ.

Oh, I didn't know that! I always got offended by it because I though people were just too lazy to spell the entire word! (I still think most of the people who do that really are lazy though, but glad to know about the greek symbol)

I lived in Hawaii for several years and there are a lot of non-Christian religions there that do have some sort of celebration during Christmas. I worked in retail at the time and I did get in the habit of saying Happy Holidays because more than likely I was talking with someone who was buddist or some other religion. I've never taken offense when people I do not know wish me Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, to me it's still the same sentiment and they are being polite.

I agree too: Christmas Trees = Christmas Plates!

 

[janetupnorth]

Another good lesson Becky - thank you! I know the symbol you were referring to, but not what it meant.

 

[susanr613]

I wrote HO also. I am not expecting anything other then a generic response.

Janet, I'm glad you liked the Seder. I have a Christian friend who has come with me to my synagogue's seders every year for the past 3 years.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

Another good lesson Becky - thank you! I know the symbol you were referring to, but not what it meant.

I just chuckle over it - it's my own little nerd joke....they think they are making it a generic word, when really it's just another way of writing it!


(and that's why I'm in the Nerd Group!)

 

[susanr613]

Oh and BTW, I do not have a problem selling the plates - they are very pretty and I am sure high quality. I will call them Christmas plates - why avoid the obvious?

I would have a problem selling or promoting something that doesn't work or is a ripoff.

 

[jrstephens]

Oh, I didn't know that! I always got offended by it because I though people were just too lazy to spell the entire word! (I still think most of the people who do that really are lazy though, but glad to know about the greek symbol)

I am glad to know there is a Greek symbol that means Christ too. But in my experience the ones using "x" are using it to take Christ out, they do not know about the Greek symbol either. I do not think that is something widely known to everyone.

 

[jrstephens]

Oh and BTW, I do not have a problem selling the plates - they are very pretty and I am sure high quality. I will call them Christmas plates - why avoid the obvious?

I will be calling them that too!!

 

[peichef]

I just chuckle over it - it's my own little nerd joke....they think they are making it a generic word, when really it's just another way of writing it!


(and that's why I'm in the Nerd Group!)

I guess I'm in the Nerd group, too, then b/c I was about to the same thing about X-mas. Just the sort of thing that gives me a giggle.

I am not against stores saying Happy Holidays as I think we ought not assume that everyone we meet is a Christian. (I just don't "get" non-Christians who are offended by it, as it is said in the spirit of goodwill.)

I do take issue though with the plates being called Holiday Plates when they are clearly designed with Christmas is mind.

What's next? Nativity scenes bing depicted as "Holiday Scenes"? Give me a break.

I don't have an issue with us selling the plates. But I don't think they should be considered offensive or insensitive to people of other faiths. Our mission statement (found in our catalogs) makes mention of God. Clearly, Christianity was one of Doris' founding principles when she started all of this. And PLEASE don't think I'm saying that PC is only for Christians. Heaven help me, I've probably just started a war with that comment.

I'm just saying that God is referenced in our mission statement so it should be no surprise that we offer a Christmas plate. I think they are trying to make it less offensive to non-Christians with the name -- regardless of how many Christians they might offend.

 

[Christ Follower]

And, even though they may try...even by saying Xmas they are not taking Christ out of Christmas.

X (although I can't draw it correctly on this keyboard) is the Greek symbol for Christ. In Theology and Bible classes during college, I often used an X in my notes to signify Christ.

I was just going to point that out but you beat me to it! I no longer get offened at the X. lol

 

[janetupnorth]

http://www.cresourcei.org/symbols/xmasorigin.html

 

[susanr613]

again, i'm glad that christians also see that it's not a good thing to call them holiday plates.

it's challenging being a religious minority, even if you can practice in peace. as i wrote to HO, i'd rather be ignored than imposed upon. hence, christmas plates are ok, holiday plates are not

to your points, charity:
- i'm not offended that the plates are being offered, but i am that they are called holiday plates.
- belief in God is not exclusive to one faith, so pretty much all monotheists are covered by the mission statement ;-)
- i know you are not saying that pc is only for christians

Jennifer, thanks again for raising this topic. Everyone, if you feel strongly about this, please e-mail the Solution Center. We can't expect HO to read our minds.

 

[BethCooks4U]

I guess I'm in the Nerd group, too, then b/c I was about to the same thing about X-mas. Just the sort of thing that gives me a giggle.

I am not against stores saying Happy Holidays as I think we ought not assume that everyone we meet is a Christian. (I just don't "get" non-Christians who are offended by it, as it is said in the spirit of goodwill.)

I do take issue though with the plates being called Holiday Plates when they are clearly designed with Christmas is mind.

What's next? Nativity scenes bing depicted as "Holiday Scenes"? Give me a break.

I don't have an issue with us selling the plates. But I don't think they should be considered offensive or insensitive to people of other faiths. Our mission statement (found in our catalogs) makes mention of God. Clearly, Christianity was one of Doris' founding principles when she started all of this. And PLEASE don't think I'm saying that PC is only for Christians. Heaven help me, I've probably just started a war with that comment.

I'm just saying that God is referenced in our mission statement so it should be no surprise that we offer a Christmas plate. I think they are trying to make it less offensive to non-Christians with the name -- regardless of how many Christians they might offend.

I am Christian and hate the use of "holiday" when Christmas is really what is meant. I too am tired of Christians having to be sensitive to all other religions but being raked over the coals if we try to talk about our own faith. I am Catholic and there are lots of other Christian groups that put us down too. (My son had a new friend in 4th grade who saw the fish symbol on my car and said "I didn't know you were Christian, I thought you were Catholic").

On the other side of it though, I do feel that a lot of Christians throw Christianity in others' faces. So often I hear about people acting Christian and other such comments. We are people of faith. I know many people of other faiths that are as good or better than me - more faith-filled. It is arrogant of us to think that being Christian is better than other faiths and even though many are humble in their faith they come across as arrogant to those of other faiths by their words. There are times when "happy holidays" or seasons greatings" is appropriate.

That being said, Christmas is the celebration of Jesus Christ's birth and should not be watered down by changing it to a generic term. We don't ask our Jewish friends to call Hanukkah "holiday" for instance. I do look for Christmas Cards that say Christmas. And I send Hanukkah to friends I know are Jewish. They have all told me that Christmas cards would have been fine with them - it's the thought that counts.

I do agree that those plates should be called Christmas plates and that it would have been better if they had been winter scenes so that no one would be left out in the holiday joy. This is why it has taken so long for PC to even come out with such items. IMHO

 

[ChefAlicia]

I get tired of everyone costantly complaining about something from the home office. They try very hard to make the right choices for the company and for the consultants. Why does everyone always have to find something to complain about. If you are not interested in selling the "holiday plates" then don't, don't talk about them either at your shows. But let everyone make up their own minds as to whether this is an item that they would like to puchase. You are never going to make everyone happy.

 

[peichef]

again, i'm glad that christians also see that it's not a good thing to call them holiday plates.

it's challenging being a religious minority, even if you can practice in peace. as i wrote to HO, i'd rather be ignored than imposed upon. hence, christmas plates are ok, holiday plates are not

to your points, charity:
- i'm not offended that the plates are being offered, but i am that they are called holiday plates.
- belief in God is not exclusive to one faith, so pretty much all monotheists are covered by the mission statement ;-)
- i know you are not saying that pc is only for christians

Jennifer, thanks again for raising this topic. Everyone, if you feel strongly about this, please e-mail the Solution Center. We can't expect HO to read our minds.

It's nice to see that we're on the same page. My point about God in the mission statement, though, is (with the exception of Judaism) most non-Christian religions do not call their "high power" God. Our mission statement could, therefore be offensive to Muslims, Buddhists, as well as atheists & agnostics. I choose to believe that most people have bigger issues in their lives than to nitpick over our Mission statement (let alone notice in the catalog).

And, like Susan, the offensive bit to me is the name of the product. These are clearly Christmas plates & should be called such. Anything else seems like pandering. I imagine they were trying to avoid controversy, but it seems like they stirred some up regardless

 

[janetupnorth]

I get tired of everyone costantly complaining about something from the home office. They try very hard to make the right choices for the company and for the consultants. Why does everyone always have to find something to complain about. If you are not interested in selling the "holiday plates" then don't, don't talk about them either at your shows. But let everyone make up their own minds as to whether this is an item that they would like to puchase. You are never going to make everyone happy.

I too get tired of "complaining" that goes on and there are people that do "complain" and are always negative. However, on this thread, I see a whole group of people who normally don't complain, and they are bringing up valid points and expressing logic to go with them. These are the same people who wholeheartedly love the company and defend almost all decisions. AND, they are expressing their complaints intelligently and taking it to HO where appropriate. They are not on here bashing PC.I didn't see anyone who disagreed with the name saying that they weren't going to sell them. They just disagreed over the choice of terms on them.I say let the discussion continue. It was quite intellectual compared to many in the past.

 

[susanr613]

well said, janet!

i'm just happy i won't insult you and my other christian friends when i wish you a merry christmas in a few months

 

[peichef]

I too get tired of "complaining" that goes on and there are people that do "complain" and are always negative. However, on this thread, I see a whole group of people who normally don't complain, and they are bringing up valid points and expressing logic to go with them.

These are the same people who wholeheartedly love the company and defend almost all decisions.

AND, they are expressing their complaints intelligently and taking it to HO where appropriate. They are not on here bashing PC.

I didn't see anyone who disagreed with the name saying that they weren't going to sell them. They just disagreed over the choice of terms on then.

I say let the discussion continue. It was quite intellectual compared to many in the past.

well said Janet!!

I'm not trying to be a complainer about this issue. I do think PC has created an interesting situation & maybe it's good that we are all hashing it out here so that we know what opinions we can to expect to come across with our clients & cluster mates / downline.

 

[lkprescott]

I'm fine with them being holiday plates... I'm not Christian. My family celebrates the Yuletide over the Winter Solstice and we decorate a tree for it has NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ but to do with welcoming nature that remains green through the 'dead' of winter. We also decorate with other evergreens during the Yuletide. Check out the history of the "Christmas" tree, it makes for interesting reading. I have heard of some Christians that have been trying to take over the symbol of the evergreen tree.. saying it somehow represents JC but alas, it's a completely pagan symbol... sorry. Evergreens are 'eternal' life through the death of winters especially in our past (it's hard to think how hard times were while we sit in the winter our heated abodes, with insulation and such)... our ancestors held onto such symbols and celebrated them along with the return of the Sun which noted continuing life for everyone. Which is why Season's Greetings is indeed a blessing and usually what I say to folks... regardless of faith, the passage of the season still holds true as does the '[re]birth' of the Sun and the days growing longer through the Summertide.I'da loved it to be called a Yule Plate but alas, most folks only are familiar with Yule through a few scant carols (Deck the Halls is one) or corny greeting cards "I know Yule love this card"... I'm quite happy with Holiday Plate, so named. Not thrilled with the idea of a glass plate... BTDT but should be interesting to see who ends up buying them.

 

[smarteez2]

Everybody makes a good point, but personally i don't care what they are called, I don't think PC should be selling stuff that seasonal, imho. I would not spend my money on something that can basically only be used once maybe twice a year. Nothing to do with religion at all. If they wanted something nice for the holidays they should have done something along the lines of the dessert plates, the gold and white ones. I think these are tacky to be honest and would not buy them if they were on sell at the dollar store.

 

[pampchefrhondab]

I just wish they would have made the plates just plain green and not w/a Christmas tree on them! They could be used for more then just the Christmas season that way and easier to sell!

 

[susanr613]

So, after all this great dialog....does anyone want to buy my Christmas and/or Yuletide themed platter? I earned one for SAT and of course will not be using it in my home. I also do not like to bring delicate things to shows, so it will just sit in my garage.

PM me with your zip if you're interested.

 

[ChefBeckyD]

So, after all this great dialog....does anyone want to buy my Christmas and/or Yuletide themed platter? I earned one for SAT and of course will not be using it in my home. I also do not like to bring delicate things to shows, so it will just sit in my garage.

PM me with your zip if you're interested.

Oh Susan...that made me giggle! I'm sure someone will want your plate!